Another Win for TechDAS

JackD201

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Apr 20, 2010
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TechDAS is on a roll.

Since the AF1's introduction in 2012, every year they've entered a new table they've won the Prestigious Stereo Grand Prix Award in Japan.

They did it with the AF1 in 2012, the AF2 in 2014, the AF3 in 2015 and this year with the AF1 Premium. Congratulations to the great team at Stella Inc!

Yes, I've made my reservation, after hearing for myself in Hong Kong I knew I had to do it! Good news for current AF1 owners is that their tables are fully upgradeable. :D

On a final note to Christian, the Titanium upper platter is actually heavier than the Duralumin by 2kg. No more fears of decreased MOI.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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Jack

are you sure as I was told that the titanium upper platter only weighs 2 kg and is lighter than the duralumin. Perhaps my info is wrong

My mistake Steve, I was reading their latest Japanese brochure and misread it, it's 4kg & 6kg for aluminum and titanium respectively and 11kg for the stainless.

david
 

JackD201

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Exactly right David :)
 

garylkoh

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The new Air Force One Premium is definitely quite a step above the original version of the AF1 I heard with my speakers in Hong Kong nearly 5 years ago. I had the great fortune to spend a few days with one and figuring out how to optimize it for demo. When Nishikawa-san came two days later and played one of his albums on it, he had a big grin and said "Good set-up".

AF1.jpg

That album he brought by Kyung Wah Chung is absolutely amazing - unfortunately, try as I might, I still haven't managed to get a copy. Nishi loved the violin tone we managed to get out of the system - the phono stage was the CH Precision P-1 plus X-1.

Translator.jpg
 

es347

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..Kyung Wah Chung...which album pls
 

es347

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Midwest fly over state..
..thanks gentlemen
 

garylkoh

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That's what we were using in HK, and the staff at Forthwise was taking orders...... so I'm guessing that it's available at least for order. Be warned that it seems that anything from TechDas seems to be so popular that they are backordered on everything!!
 

garylkoh

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We did swap quite a number of cartridges between the two arms because we needed to demo both cartridges and wanted the best compromise. But with the same cartridge (two of the TechDas TDC01Ti) the SAT was far, far better. The SME sounded like it was distorting. We switched the cartridges between the two to be sure.

When I ran my torture track (HiFi News Analogue Test LP Side 2 track 4 - 300Hz +15dB), I could feel the vibrations in the arm-rest of the SME. Not sure if it's due to the secondary arm board hanging out the back, but tightening the screws as much as we could between the armboard and the body of the turntable didn't help. Not many cartridges can track this track without distortion, but this is the first time I've felt the vibrations go through the arm pillar to the arm-rest platform. We weren't sure where the problem came from, but the arm displayed the same alarming vibrations using the DS Audio cartridge as well.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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We did swap quite a number of cartridges between the two arms because we needed to demo both cartridges and wanted the best compromise. But with the same cartridge (two of the TechDas TDC01Ti) the SAT was far, far better. The SME sounded like it was distorting. We switched the cartridges between the two to be sure.

When I ran my torture track (HiFi News Analogue Test LP Side 2 track 4 - 300Hz +15dB), I could feel the vibrations in the arm-rest of the SME. Not sure if it's due to the secondary arm board hanging out the back, but tightening the screws as much as we could between the armboard and the body of the turntable didn't help. Not many cartridges can track this track without distortion, but this is the first time I've felt the vibrations go through the arm pillar to the arm-rest platform. We weren't sure where the problem came from, but the arm displayed the same alarming vibrations using the DS Audio cartridge as well.

Gary,

very interesting about the 'vibrations through the arm board' comments for the SME arm.

a few years back I had a number of tt's with cantilevered rotating arm boards and did find that they had 'limitations' and the materials used and 'stoutness' of the attachment had a great effect on the sound. I'm sure that the AF1 has as stout an attachment, and good a material as possible.....but ultimately you end up comparing mounting schemes and not arms when the two mounts are so different.

I wonder whether listening through headphones might have changed the outcome? or maybe with the bass towers turned off or down?......to eliminate the 'feedback from the speakers' factor. for me recently this was the case with my MM7 bass towers so close to the turntable. maybe the AF1 suspension works fine for the right side short arm mount, but has limits to isolate the left side cantilevered mount. "my guess is that" your non musical test track pushed past the design envelope of that left side mount position (and the longer arms can be heavier making the delta worse).....maybe it's ok for most/all music and you just found it's bad place. you would ultimately have to compare various arms from that left side spot to know what the arms are actually doing themselves.

my solution to feedback was to improve the decoupling by substituting a Herzan active platform for the regular passive NVS decoupling platform.
 
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garylkoh

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Yes - that's a good point, Mike. Something I wondered myself as we had the titanium armboard on the right side. The right side armboard would not accommodate the 12-inch arm, so exchanging arms wasn't going to work. However, that same left-side armboard accommodates a 12-in Graham, and it was excellent in that position.

When we were checking out the turntable, the system wasn't even playing. Besides - you don't want to be listening to a 300Hz +15dB signal much, if at all.
 

ddk

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May 18, 2013
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Gary,

My own experience with the V confirms what you heard. It's distorted & colored specially in the bass region, people often miss it due to lack of a reference and/or the complication and interdependence involved with a high end tt player but in this case with the SAT right there as a reference the V's shortcomings became apparent easy to pick out. Don't know if your V was a current generation with the silver wiring or not but IMO there's an additional layer of distortion introduced with the silver. I have identical tonearms on my AF-1 and I hear no sonic difference between the front and rear locations.

david

We did swap quite a number of cartridges between the two arms because we needed to demo both cartridges and wanted the best compromise. But with the same cartridge (two of the TechDas TDC01Ti) the SAT was far, far better. The SME sounded like it was distorting. We switched the cartridges between the two to be sure.

When I ran my torture track (HiFi News Analogue Test LP Side 2 track 4 - 300Hz +15dB), I could feel the vibrations in the arm-rest of the SME. Not sure if it's due to the secondary arm board hanging out the back, but tightening the screws as much as we could between the armboard and the body of the turntable didn't help. Not many cartridges can track this track without distortion, but this is the first time I've felt the vibrations go through the arm pillar to the arm-rest platform. We weren't sure where the problem came from, but the arm displayed the same alarming vibrations using the DS Audio cartridge as well.
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
5,599
225
1,190
Seattle, WA
www.genesisloudspeakers.com
Gary,

My own experience with the V confirms what you heard. It's distorted & colored specially in the bass region, people often miss it due to lack of a reference and/or the complication and interdependence involved with a high end tt player but in this case with the SAT right there as a reference the V's shortcomings became apparent easy to pick out. Don't know if your V was a current generation with the silver wiring or not but IMO there's an additional layer of distortion introduced with the silver. I have identical tonearms on my AF-1 and I hear no sonic difference between the front and rear locations.

david

Thanks, David. I thought that there might have been something wrong with that particular arm - worn bearings or something. That arm is the long-time demo at this particular dealer and it was suspect when I first heard it a few years ago. They've had this arm for over 5 years, and I am not familiar enough with SME tonearms to comment whether it was a current generation. Like I said, I had a Graham on the rear location, and it sounded excellent.
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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We did swap quite a number of cartridges between the two arms because we needed to demo both cartridges and wanted the best compromise. But with the same cartridge (two of the TechDas TDC01Ti) the SAT was far, far better. The SME sounded like it was distorting. We switched the cartridges between the two to be sure.

When I ran my torture track (HiFi News Analogue Test LP Side 2 track 4 - 300Hz +15dB), I could feel the vibrations in the arm-rest of the SME. Not sure if it's due to the secondary arm board hanging out the back, but tightening the screws as much as we could between the armboard and the body of the turntable didn't help. Not many cartridges can track this track without distortion, but this is the first time I've felt the vibrations go through the arm pillar to the arm-rest platform. We weren't sure where the problem came from, but the arm displayed the same alarming vibrations using the DS Audio cartridge as well.

Thanks Gary for those comments. From the photo, that looks like the 312S arm, which, according to those who have heard all three, sounds quite different from both the 9" V and 12" V-12. If it has sounded suspect to you before, perhaps the dealer should get a different SME demo arm. My SME dealer told me that SME would not design a cantilevered arm board for their 12" arms, preferring the very solid, thick, and massive boards designed for their 20/12 and 30/12 tables. I have not noticed vibrations reaching my armboard, though the arm is designed so that vibrations are drawn away from the cartridge toward the arm base/board.

I would love to hear the SAT arm someday. I've heard some great things about it. If I were in the market, I would be very curious about a direct comparison between the SAT on an AF2 and a Graham on an AF1. I have a hunch the former would sound better and cost less.

Do you know if the AF2 has the same platter and armboard upgrade options that the AF1 has?
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
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Armboards only Peter. There is only one platter for the AF2.
 

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