Master Built-What are Owners Hearing That They Didn't Hear With Other Cables
- Thread starter Steve Williams
- Start date
Thanks Peter for trying to explain the unexplainable here. But really, are we compare Mike/Blizzard to Steve? I hope we don't go there
.As I mentioned I learned about Steve's opinion of cables from forming this joint venture. The topic came up to rationalize our differing views of audio with Steve mentioning that he sees no value in audiophile cables as a common ground for both of us. During the ensuing years, I spent a lot of time communicating with Steve, far more than anyone else here would in casual audiophile encounters. This was a constant in his view as evidenced by the thread I post where he actually took the position of *objectivists* when it came to cables. Steve had gone through decades of being an audiophile and then having an aha moment that got him to ditch all of those views.
That is the Steve I knew and the conclusion of his nearly lifelong endeavour. During that time I am sure he had heard many other people's systems, none of which had changed his views.
Having someone go from believing in cables making a difference, then believing that they absolutely don't, and now insisting on revolutionary changes to sound in some specific brand, is not at all explained by what you say Peter. Steve has created this thread pleading with us that his observations are true. He is seeking approval from the community and support from fellow users. In that context, I shared my personal views of his journey that unfortunately his judgement of cable fidelity is unreliable and not durable. You can't possibly flip flop so many times in such large magnitude as to go to the objectivist camp and then say, "you have to believe me; this is the most important change I have heard in my system."
Now, opinions can advance and we can reserve the right to become smarter.
If so, then a modicum of modesty would be in order rather than coming out and throwing swords at me and others. The comments should be, "while I have been wrong about cable assessments before, I think this is a good one." Not like, "you all are idiots if you don't go and listen to this cable." No, we would be idiots if we believed the latest opinion as valid given the past history.So no, the situation is not as simple as you say Peter.
I promise you, I will make every possible effort to do that, and I may even ask you to send me your cables at some point, and I'll cover shipping. Perhaps while you are away on vacation...
Thanks Peter for trying to explain the unexplainable here. But really, are we compare Mike/Blizzard to Steve? I hope we don't go there
As I mentioned I learned about Steve's opinion of cables from forming this joint venture. The topic came up to rationalize our differing views of audio with Steve mentioning that he sees no value in audiophile cables as a common ground for both of us. During the ensuing years, I spent a lot of time communicating with Steve, far more than anyone else here would in casual audiophile encounters. This was a constant in his view as evidenced by the thread I post where he actually took the position of *objectivists* when it came to cables. Steve had gone through decades of being an audiophile and then having an aha moment that got him to ditch all of those views.
That is the Steve I knew and the conclusion of his nearly lifelong endeavour. During that time I am sure he had heard many other people's systems, none of which had changed his views.
Having someone go from believing in cables making a difference, then believing that they absolutely don't, and now insisting on revolutionary changes to sound in some specific brand, is not at all explained by what you say Peter. Steve has created this thread pleading with us that his observations are true. He is seeking approval from the community and support from fellow users. In that context, I shared my personal views of his journey that unfortunately his judgement of cable fidelity is unreliable and not durable. You can't possibly flip flop so many times in such large magnitude as to go to the objectivist camp and then say, "you have to believe me; this is the most important change I have heard in my system."
Now, opinions can advance and we can reserve the right to become smarter.
So no, the situation is not as simple as you say Peter.
Perhaps we all need to collectively stop attacking each other, directly or indirectly. The focus should be the MB cables. Personally, I think it's a positive trait when people do eventually change their minds.
Amir what you read from the OP is beyond anything I said. I asked for other members to state what they heard but instead you make this personal as you so always seem to do
I suggest you strongly rethink how you post in this thread and take ack's last post to heart
I suggest you strongly rethink how you post in this thread and take ack's last post to heart
I think Steve's cable skepticism resulted from reading feedback on blind testing. he bought into the myth that blind testing proved something.
it does not prove anything. it's simply a data point like any other data point.
then he again believed his ears and brain when he heard his reference moved. it happens like that.
the question is what was Steve's reference when he heard the MB and how valid was that in making over the top claims? were other top of line current offerings involved in his raves?
like any reviewer, we should judge opinions based on references used....since that is the basis for the judgment. I don't question Steve's perceptions, only what the implications are of those perceptions. Steve told the truth from his perspective.
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as a believer in cables i take steve's recommendation very seriously although all opinions are just data points for the community to discus, hear and learn. i will make an effort to hear these cables as soon as humanly possible. MB appears to be around for 5 years and this first time i am hearing about them. leaving aside the whole controversy around the super-connectivity issue, i am surprised that this brand has little distribution despite the VSA affiliation, there are no official reviews, no price list, no meaningful discussions in forums etc. so i am curios to know why the hype train after all these years? where were they hiding?
1) Damon Von Schweikert is very friendly and receptive guy - I exchanged a few PMs with him and he immediately addressed what I found that could be misleading or inaccurate from the Master Built site. Probably it will take some time before it disappears from sites of retailers.
3) Oscilloscopes do not have accuracy enough to check that wave forms are passed with adulteration. IMHO no meaningful simple measurement in the audio band will be able to differentiate MB cables from any others.
LOL
I personally haven't gotten that far yet. But notice, I have not jumped all over the CD player either... Back on topic, I find this discussion really fascinating from everyone's perspective. It clearly points out - yet again - how differently we all approach audio, and this diversity of opinion is one of those things that make this hobby really fun... fun for those who just care about the sound, fun for those who care about one delivery medium over another, fun for those who passionately care about one technology over another, fun for those who tend to be skeptical... and fun when one can afford to live one's small audio dream.
Love a good rumble on WBF , it's the only place it happens .... not all chocalety n surupy like certain other fora around . It is this debating and disbelief till proven wrong , either by personal experience or overwhelming general consensus that furthers our cause , in understanding this our hobby/addiction .
I have no reason to not believe what Steve hears with the MB wire . I do however have reservations on his previous loom . Having owned a complete Valhalla 1 loom myself , I know it to be flawed . It has a whitish unnatural tonal balance with a lack of mid bass energy , that can sort of make do in a tube based rig . IMHO , any half decent cable should improve on it .
Having said that , the MB wires are also in use in Jack & Jim's systems . Two top tier rigs by all accounts .... Custom designed rooms , well thought out set ups along with various favorable feedback , Steve's included . This for me is a valid data point .
Look forward to learning more about the MB line .
I have no reason to not believe what Steve hears with the MB wire . I do however have reservations on his previous loom . Having owned a complete Valhalla 1 loom myself , I know it to be flawed . It has a whitish unnatural tonal balance with a lack of mid bass energy , that can sort of make do in a tube based rig . IMHO , any half decent cable should improve on it .
Having said that , the MB wires are also in use in Jack & Jim's systems . Two top tier rigs by all accounts .... Custom designed rooms , well thought out set ups along with various favorable feedback , Steve's included . This for me is a valid data point .
Look forward to learning more about the MB line .
You should check the UK forums. Absolute brawlers. You buy anything they will thrash you. Cables and power treatments are their favorites.
The Wigwam crowd , rough lot but more like a local pub bust up . This is like loggerheads at the NATO summit
Sorry, Steve, you're wrong. I found nothing offensive in Amir's post. There is nothing wrong with pointing out the history of someone on a given issue. I note that you haven't refuted his assertions.
And by the way, I have changed my mind on things too, so there's nothing wrong if you did as well. That's what thinking people do. Only the unthinking ones remain stubborn in all their views.
Also, I am personally unnerved by the hyperbolic assertions surrounding those new MB cables. Cables can make a difference, but I am highly skeptical that they make such a difference compared to already good cables. Other, active components in the chain can make drastic differences (cables are passive). In fact, all this hyperbole is a big turn-off for me. I intend to not audition those cables.
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