In search of my last great loudspeaker
- Thread starter marty
- Start date
Did the woofers menace to go on strike?
All rooms have issues around 60-80Hz. I want the subs to correct those issues if they can not be corrected by speaker placement!
Even though they are rolled off at 90, that doesn't mean that the mains are not producing bass. There's still signal going to the woofers, but the amps don't have to work as hard!
Because anything more would overload and sound terrible. This is where the system sounds best. I run the speakers full range and cross out everything above 35 Hz on the subs. They used to be 43 Hz but since I added the MB loom of cable the sub had to be readjusted
Thats interesting. I would think with the subs crossed over higher you could control the bass output better and minimise the bass overloading your room
Although I do not know how David Wilson uses the Thor's in his system, I have recently seen a YouTube movie where Peter McGraph presents a system using XLFs/Thor´'s/Thor controller/VTL, The XLFs are operated full range and the subs just to supplement it, using the controller just as low pass crossover. He was very clear on this aspect.
When I listened to his system without the subs, I don't believe he had a problem with overloading in the bass. With the subs on it add a little extra deep bottom. You feel more of it them you hear. It really sounded good.
I don't understand, Mike. Are you saying that audiophiles actually have day jobs?
I don't think you can use the Gotham DARO program to EQ anything but the subs. If there was a way to run the test program signal through the S2 without EQ'ing it, but allowing for the subs to be EQ'd in the presence of the signal coming from the S2 without EQ'ing the S2, then I'd love to learn how to do that. That would be a tremendous asset towards further optimizing the system.
Christian,
I'm on the road and can't give you many of those values until I return home, but the speakers are 127" tweet to tweet, and 153" from ear to speaker for Wilson ratio of 1.20. Listening ear height is 38" off the floor. My question for you (or any big Wilson owner) is how much of the inside speaker cabinet can you see in the listening position? none? sliver? couple of inches? etc.
Marty
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Wilson Setup.
Again there is no predetermined toe in on the Wilson Speakers. In setup as a general rule you do it by ear. If you aggressively toe in you get more center image focus, If you open them up you get a bigger sound stage. One has to find the exact mix in their room. It's personal and critical to work with the customer to get this step dialed in for me.
Very important question. Especially when you have 2 people sitting to enjoy the speakers.
Again there is no predetermined toe in on the Wilson Speakers. In setup as a general rule you do it by ear. If you aggressively toe in you get more center image focus, If you open them up you get a bigger sound stage. One has to find the exact mix in their room. It's personal and critical to work with the customer to get this step dialed in for me.
Very important question. Especially when you have 2 people sitting to enjoy the speakers.
Bruce,
You haven't said what you will be using the CR-1/subs with. May we learn that?
Learning to use the CR-1/Gothams with the S2s required patience and a willingness to experiment. As I said previously, when I first got the S2s, I was frustrated with their sound in the room as a stand alone speaker. Then I thought, hey, why not just run the system like I did the Pipes, using the CR-1 crossing over at 82 Hz, thinking this would get the "lumpy gravy" out of the bottom end since the bottom end performance would depend mostly on the Gothams as it did with the Pipes. And sure enough, it sounded pretty good. In fact, it was the first clue the speakers might actually survive my evaluation process. But what kept gnawing at me is that now what I had was basically the world's most expensive pair of mini-monitors on the world's most expensive mini-monitor stands! More importantly, it seemed I was throwing away some of the strength of the S2s which are its bass to mid/upper bass transition (40-120 Hz). That zone has always seemed superb to me in other installations. I attribute that to Wilson's efforts at crossover/voicing in that region. It was the area I could never get as "right" as I would have liked with the Gotham/Pipes using either a low level 144dB/octave slope crossover (TacT), or a 24dB/octave crossover (CR-1). Yet Wilson seems to have gotten this region right using a high level 24 bD/ octave crossover design. So I thought, why try re-inventing the wheel? Might as well try to set up the S2's more optimally in the room first to take more advantage of its strengths, and then add the Gothams at a lower frequency. I look forward to your experimentation. Happy to talk more about how to optimize the CR-1 as there are some tricks I have learned that you may find useful, but I don't want to bias your set-up now!
Marty
Same here on crossover...the overlap above 40hz does not work as well. I start to perceive a slight thickness to the bass which I do not need to fatten up those notes. The Wilsons are fine as is to that point...but below 40hz, the Wilsons alone (imho) just do not fill the soundstage with enough energy, slam or tightfisted pulse in comparison with the Velodyne DD18+ playing roughly 15hz-40hz in parallel with the Wilsons.
as Marty pointed out the X2 is just not a full range speaker with little information below 30-40 Hz
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