New forum created for subjectivist members

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BlueFox

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Nov 8, 2013
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Funny or not, the point is why is this man in-particularly being repetitively directed towards Amir? Not only is it childish, it also insinuates racism to all but folks who turn a blind eye. Or are completely dense.

That is quite an observation. Fits perfectly in the Subjective forum. :)
 

Gregadd

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Apr 20, 2010
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It's crazy to think this forum solves anything. Having two forums is like having two restrooms. Each has a sign out front. One says , Handwashers. The other says Non-Handwasers. Nobody enters the latter.
Amir stacked the deck against the very forum he created. Who wants to enter a forum that says, those afraid to be callenged enter here.
It just drips with hostility.
 

amirm

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It's crazy to think this forum solves anything. Having two forums is like having two restrooms. Each has a sign out front. One says , Handwashers. The other says Non-Handwasers. Nobody enters the latter.
Amir stacked the deck against the very forum he created. Who wants to enter a forum that says, those afraid to be callenged enter here.
It just drips with hostility.
I don't understand what you are saying. Does someone else want to take a shot at translating it for me?
 

opus112

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Feb 24, 2016
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Does someone else want to take a shot at translating it for me?

I'll have a go, I pretty much got what Greg's saying. He's saying because of the name - 'the forum for people who hate to have their views challenged' - no-one is going to come.

I agree up to a point - those who don't want their views challenged will staunchly maintain they're open-minded and reasonable. They're going to rationalize their own position, not admit to fear of challenge. Of course their fear is subconscious, not acknowledged.
 

rockitman

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You are trolling this thread per your own definition. Please read the topic of this thread and stay on that.

People should be allowed to post subjects of interest in existing forums. If other members attack the op by trolling their threads, they should be sanctioned. This newly created forum is a waste of bandwidth. Best of luck with it.
 

amirm

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People should be allowed to post subjects of interest in existing forums. If other members attack the op by trolling their threads, they should be sanctioned. This newly created forum is a waste of bandwidth. Best of luck with it.
It doesn't cost anything to create a forum. But yes, I agree with you that this should not be necessary. People should not take the bait and argue back.
 

opus112

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Its hard to get a form of words which won't be taken as offensive, after all the people who you want to encourage to post here are those who one has to walk on eggshells around.

Perhaps emphasize preference, rather than fear. How about "For those who object to people asking for justification of listening experiences, here is a place where that'll be subject to sanction."?
 

Gregadd

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Thanks Opus. I'll take it from here.
Amir has never pleaded ignorance. He knows exactly what I mean. The creation of this forum is a carefully calculated move.
 

spazmatron

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I don't understand what you are saying. Does someone else want to take a shot at translating it for me?

' i dont like you'

hope that helps, if you want the more underhand cryptic ones translated i can do that for you as well. a lot of what gets posted here is not what it seems.

gregadd is right though, if a separate forum for subjective folk was to be utilised, steve would've needed to be the one to of created it as you doing it will varnish the door with a sense of hostility and degradation to anyone (subjective non king recogniser) who enters.

i could be considered a subjectivist, that's how i chose my hi fi. i again have to say i dont see why the objectivist view should upset me? i have objectivist aspirations i guess, though some of the more fundamental do grate at times but same with my fellow subjectivist with their insincerity. i mean i could buy the most ugly speakers post pictures and still get a ' wow beautiful speakers congratulations' false praise does make me throw up in my mouth a bit :D

guess i wont be welcome on either side.
 
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Gregadd

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Its hard to get a form of words which won't be taken as offensive, after all the people who you want to encourage to post here are those who one has to walk on eggshells around.

Perhaps emphasize preference, rather than fear. How about "For those who object to people asking for justification of listening experiences, here is a place where that'll be subject to sanction."?

Really? You thank that's better?
 

opus112

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Feb 24, 2016
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Deleting the word 'fear' which Amir used in his first post I feel (not think) is a step forward. You don't ?

I'll just add in the interests of disclosure that I'm a fully-fledged subjectivist myself, but not one who's going to object to having my subjective listening impressions challenged. So I'm content to stay on the other threads.
 

Gregadd

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Deleting the word 'fear' which Amir used in his first post I feel (not think) is a step forward. You don't ?

No. The members are intelligent. They know exactly what Amir is trying to do.
Posting in that area would be an admission that you are afraid to be challenged by measurements.
Many have taken valid and well reasoned positions of what I sometimes refer to as the tyranny of measurents. Just because you refuse to be baited into a blind test or lack the ability or equipment to conduct measurements doesn't mean you are afraid to be challenged.
It's not the method they oppose. It's rhe conclusion.
 

opus112

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Feb 24, 2016
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No. The members are intelligent. They know exactly what Amir is trying to do.

Looks not like intelligence to me, cynicism rather.

Posting in that area would be an admission that you are afraid to be challenged by measurements.

That indeed would be stupidity - after all measurements are orthogonal to observations. No measurement's yet been devised which correlates with subjective sound quality.

Many have taken valid and well reasoned positions of what I sometimes refer to as the tyranny of measurents. Just because you refuse to be baited into a blind test or lack the ability or equipment to conduct measurements doesn't mean you are afraid to be challenged.

I would agree. But that's not what this area is about. Its not a 'I don't believe in ABX' forum. Nor a 'I reject blind testing' area. I agree a focus on measurements to the exclusion of the ultimate aim (listening enjoyment) is tyrannical.
 

BlueFox

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No. The members are intelligent. They know exactly what Amir is trying to do.
Posting in that area would be an admission that you are afraid to be challenged by measurements.
Many have taken valid and well reasoned positions of what I sometimes refer to as the tyranny of measurents. Just because you refuse to be baited into a blind test or lack the ability or equipment to conduct measurements doesn't mean you are afraid to be challenged.
It's not the method they oppose. It's rhe conclusion.

I don't mind sharing experiences without being challenged to prove it.

Maybe we need a third forum, the Argumentive Objective/Subjective forum?
 
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opus112

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Feb 24, 2016
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I don't mind sharing experiences without be challenged to prove it.

Proof of subjective experience is impossible. That rests on the so called 'hard problem' of consciousness, which is called 'hard' for a very good reason.

So it must be possible to immediately sanction anyone calling for 'proof', no?
 

BlueFox

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Proof of subjective experience is impossible. That rests on the so called 'hard problem' of consciousness, which is called 'hard' for a very good reason.

So it must be possible to immediately sanction anyone calling for 'proof', no?

I just want to listen to my stereo. Why does it have to be so difficult? :)
 

treitz3

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Dec 25, 2011
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This is a great example of quantity over quality posts. What you see here is quantity. 4 pages of useless fluff.

Quality posts will attract industry insiders, industry professionals, manufacturers, technical experts and the like.

While I will admit this is not a quality post, the point should resonate to those who actually care about this forum, its goals and the members we would *hope* to attract.

Tom
 

opus112

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Feb 24, 2016
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Let's wait and see who gets attracted rather than jumping the gun prematurely. This is a meta thread anyway, hardly typical of the bulk of the forum.
 
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