Tonearm Comparison: SME 3012R and SME V-12

PeterA

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Has anyone heard each of these arms in the same system and done a direct comparison? I am curious to learn what the differences are, both in terms of design/features and in sonics. I am interested in perhaps trying out the 3012R in my system but would like to know a little more about this arm. Thank you.
 

jeff1225

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Jan 29, 2012
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I have heard both on the same table. Both are excellent but different. With the 3012R there is absolutely no tracking error and it is an amazing tracker. I think the V-12 is easier to set up (cartridge alignment) and has a much better (easier to use) VTA adjustment. I personally like the ability to swap cartridges with the 3012R as I have a collection of cartridges and have really been enjoying some of the vintage MM cartridges discuss on Raul's lengthy thread on Audiogon.

In terms of sound, I would say that the 3012R is extremely smooth and warm, while the V-12 has more extension and is more precise. I kept the 3012R. I'm going to post my system once my new rack is installed but here it is:

Transrotor Fat BobS
Ikeda 345
SME 3012R
Lamm LL2.1 Deluxe
Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe
Lamm M2.2
Quintessence Stealth
 

bonzo75

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I have heard both on the same table. Both are excellent but different. With the 3012R there is absolutely no tracking error and it is an amazing tracker. I think the V-12 is easier to set up (cartridge alignment) and has a much better (easier to use) VTA adjustment. I personally like the ability to swap cartridges with the 3012R as I have a collection of cartridges and have really been enjoying some of the vintage MM cartridges discuss on Raul's lengthy thread on Audiogon.

In terms of sound, I would say that the 3012R is extremely smooth and warm, while the V-12 has more extension and is more precise. I kept the 3012R. I'm going to post my system once my new rack is installed but here it is:

Transrotor Fat BobS
Ikeda 345
SME 3012R
Lamm LL2.1 Deluxe
Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe
Lamm M2.2
Quintessence Stealth

Interesting - ribbons at the top, and double JBL at the bottom? Which city are you located in?
 

jeff1225

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I live in Los Angeles. I have the Stealth 6 which you can see reviewed on AVS.
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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That is great information, jeffrey. Thanks so much for responding to my post. I had a rough suspicion that these are the sonic differences based on what others have written in general terms. I like the idea of precision (accuracy and resolution?) and extension. Would you also say that the V-12 has a more neutral tonal balance or contributes less of its own sonic signature to the overall sound? Do you think the V-12 sounds analytical or sterile compared to the warmer sound of the 3012R which may in fact sound more natural?

My goals are to have components that are as transparent as possible and then to adjust slightly to sonic preferences with different cartridges. I would be hesitant if I knew the 3012R adds a warmish tone to every LP. I like the quality of superior tracking and cartridge swapping though.

The comment about the VTA is important to me as I adjust the VTA for different LPs within a 2.5mm range and I would not want it to be any less convenient than the V-12 is now.

What kind of music do you listen to? I think you are the first person from whom I have heard who has actually had both arms on the same table in the same system. I really appreciate your comments.
 

jeff1225

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Jan 29, 2012
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I think you have a well balanced system Peter. You have very revealing speakers but Pass amplification that I would describe as warm (I have had 5 different Pass Amps). The 3012R might be a good balance with a bright or revealing cartridge. I'm looking for a warm but not rolled off sound( extended past 20K) as I seem to suffer from listening fatigue very easily.

I'm not as fastidious as you regarding VTA. I set it for standard weight records, as that is most of my 4000+ collection and will change only if we get into the new MoFi's. The 3012R does not make it easy to change the VTA.

My music 60% jazz (1960-1985 hard bop, avantgarde and fusion), 30% classical (all types) and 10% rock (mostly when people are visiting).
 

MRJAZZ

Industry Expert
Jan 20, 2014
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I have heard both on the same table. Both are excellent but different. With the 3012R there is absolutely no tracking error and it is an amazing tracker. I think the V-12 is easier to set up (cartridge alignment) and has a much better (easier to use) VTA adjustment. I personally like the ability to swap cartridges with the 3012R as I have a collection of cartridges and have really been enjoying some of the vintage MM cartridges discuss on Raul's lengthy thread on Audiogon.

In terms of sound, I would say that the 3012R is extremely smooth and warm, while the V-12 has more extension and is more precise. I kept the 3012R. I'm going to post my system once my new rack is installed but here it is:

Transrotor Fat BobS
Ikeda 345
SME 3012R
Lamm LL2.1 Deluxe
Lamm LP2.1 Deluxe
Lamm M2.2
Quintessence Stealth

Nice system you have. I especially like your choice of speakers...........-:)


Cheers................
 

108CY

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May 4, 2013
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I own both and are very different the V-12 is a very solid performer with a sense of scale to the performance, the 3012 is a lighter airy sound now it really comes to the cartridges used I like the 3012 as I can use various Ortofon spu cartridges and the V-12 for use with my air tight and kotetsu cartridges. You also have to consider that the 3012 will not fit on your Model 30/12 Turntable as it will foul the rear pillar just does not work sadly. I have heard other arms work lovely on that turntable like the De Vinci and the Ikeda and have even made a arm board that allows you to adjust the length of the board and change pods to accommodate all most any arm as long as it does not foul the rear pillar.
 

Andrew Stenhouse

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Feb 14, 2016
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How is the 3012 for mono cart's? any issues that anyone has experienced?

Thank you.
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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I own both and are very different the V-12 is a very solid performer with a sense of scale to the performance, the 3012 is a lighter airy sound now it really comes to the cartridges used I like the 3012 as I can use various Ortofon spu cartridges and the V-12 for use with my air tight and kotetsu cartridges. You also have to consider that the 3012 will not fit on your Model 30/12 Turntable as it will foul the rear pillar just does not work sadly. I have heard other arms work lovely on that turntable like the De Vinci and the Ikeda and have even made a arm board that allows you to adjust the length of the board and change pods to accommodate all most any arm as long as it does not foul the rear pillar.

Thank you 108CY. That is great information.
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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Last edited:

byrdparis

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Nov 24, 2015
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i really appriciate if someone had the chance till this thread "ended" on early 2016, to get more details and experiance on the subject in hand?!

Peter. you bought the V-12 since, are you happy with yours?
i am thinking to get an SME12 to be my 4th arm on my AF3.
it will be:
Thales simplicity II
Ortofon RS212D
Ikeda 407 or SAEC 506 (to be change between the AF3 and the Torqeuo T34)
and maybe the V-12 for a more modern and solid sound (between it and the Thlaes of course)
 

PeterA

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Dec 6, 2011
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i really appriciate if someone had the chance till this thread "ended" on early 2016, to get more details and experiance on the subject in hand?!

Peter. you bought the V-12 since, are you happy with yours?
i am thinking to get an SME12 to be my 4th arm on my AF3.
it will be:
Thales simplicity II
Ortofon RS212D
Ikeda 407 or SAEC 506 (to be change between the AF3 and the Torqeuo T34)
and maybe the V-12 for a more modern and solid sound (between it and the Thlaes of course)

Hi Byrdparis. Yes, I have the V-12 which came with my SME 30/12A. It sounds great, but I do not know how it sounds relative to any other arm besides the 9" SME V because that is the only arm to which I have ever directly compared it. I have read descriptions of the bass sounding different between the V-12 and 3012R but this is based not on direct comparisons but rather from hearing the V and perhaps not even under identical conditions. I am not aware of a single direct comparison between the two arms.
 

bonzo75

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What was the difference in bass reported?

What did you deduce from the 9" vs the 12?

Thanks
 

byrdparis

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2015
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Hi Byrdparis. Yes, I have the V-12 which came with my SME 30/12A. It sounds great, but I do not know how it sounds relative to any other arm besides the 9" SME V because that is the only arm to which I have ever directly compared it. I have read descriptions of the bass sounding different between the V-12 and 3012R but this is based not on direct comparisons but rather from hearing the V and perhaps not even under identical conditions. I am not aware of a single direct comparison between the two arms.

Thank you Peter,
glad you enjoying yourself.
i was about to pull the plug on a decent 3012R piece, someone locally had put out for sell a few days ago, but didn't eventually.
basically because i have so much arms and cart's on their way to my house. so i figured that im not so interesting with it for now.
evan though.. i just ordered a brand new V-12 to try out for myself. i think its likely be more suited to my needs beside the Ikeda, Ortofon and SAEC i will have also.
i never heard the V-12 in my system, nor any system i really know. i think the "only" V-12 i had ever encountered was the KONDO version in the Munich audio show, for the last 2 years in the KONDO room with their IO-M cart.
but i cant dismember the actual tonearm part from the entire performance.
the SME V and SME IV i heard and know more, also i had the M2-12R from SME for a few month with SPU, EMT XSD and other carts.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
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What was the difference in bass reported?

What did you deduce from the 9" vs the 12?

Thanks

One guy said he preferred the bass of the V-12 and the other guy said that the V-12 sounds unnatural and prefers the bass of the 3012R. I've never heard a 3012R so I can't say.

I did the direct comparison of the V and V12 six years ago shortly after I installed my new SME 30/12A turntable. The 9" V sounded a bit more energized, but the 12" V-12 was smoother, more refined, dug deeper in the bass, and had slightly better resolution I think due to the lower distortion and skating force. At the time, I remember thinking that the difference reminded me of a very good two way speaker versus a good three way but with the same overall coherence: more extension, more body, richer sound, more resolution, smoother. Same disappearing act. This comparison was on the same turntable, same cartridge, same cable.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
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Thank you Peter,
glad you enjoying yourself.
i was about to pull the plug on a decent 3012R piece, someone locally had put out for sell a few days ago, but didn't eventually.
basically because i have so much arms and cart's on their way to my house. so i figured that im not so interesting with it for now.
evan though.. i just ordered a brand new V-12 to try out for myself. i think its likely be more suited to my needs beside the Ikeda, Ortofon and SAEC i will have also.
i never heard the V-12 in my system, nor any system i really know. i think the "only" V-12 i had ever encountered was the KONDO version in the Munich audio show, for the last 2 years in the KONDO room with their IO-M cart.
but i cant dismember the actual tonearm part from the entire performance.
the SME V and SME IV i heard and know more, also i had the M2-12R from SME for a few month with SPU, EMT XSD and other carts.

Hi byrdparis, Did you end up with the V-12? How does it sound in your system? Since your last post in this thread, I have bought a pair of Q3s which I see you also own. I really like how they sound in my system.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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I just saw that Mik (108CY) wrote on this thread and gave you a compare.. He used to be one of the biggest SME sellers in the world and has who knows, maybe 200 arms and loads of TTs
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
12,522
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I just saw that Mik (108CY) wrote on this thread and gave you a compare.. He used to be one of the biggest SME sellers in the world and has who knows, maybe 200 arms and loads of TTs

Yes, I have spoken to Mik a few times by phone and seen photos of his amazing turntable collection. He has a custom designed 20/12 with a 12" SME arm on it, either the V-12 or the 312S. He seems to know a lot about the company but I haven't spoken to him in a while now.
 

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