Torus RM 15+/RM20 vs Shunyata Triton 1

Popspin

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2015
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54
258
Hi;
I am changing from Class D amps (Wyred4Sound SX-1000's) to Class A/B amps (Acoustic Arts Mono II's). I have all my Class D amps connected to a power strip that has some limited filtering, but no surge protection, plugged into an amp input on a Furman Ref-IT balanced power conditioner.
The plan for the new, more power hungry amps, is to plug the right and left channels directly into the dedicated 20 amp circuit with Wattgate outlets. The center channel amp will be plugged directly into the Furman. I have been told by multiple independent sources that while the Torus and Shunyata are both better than the Furman, they are not so much better that it is necessary to replace the Furman Ref-IT. So, for now, I plan to start life with the new center channel amp plugged into the Furman and see how it works out. I also plan to use the Shunyata Venom Defender Stand Alone plug in unit to provide surge protection for the amps plugged into the wall.

The rear channels are where I need your advice:
I will be adding 2 more dedicated circuits to my theater space later next year. But for now the 2 Accustic Arts Mono II amps will be plugged into the regular house circuit at the rear of my theater space. So my question is about the power conditioner to be used for the 2 surround channel amps. I have been looking at the Shunyata Triton 1 and the Torus RM15+ or RM20.
It appears that the approaches taken by the Torus and Shunyata are quite different. Am I correct in thinking that the Torus is more of a power regenerator and the Shunyata uses more of a filtering approach. They both appear to have their supporters and both seem to provide good results. Yet they are quite different from one another.
Has anybody had experience with listening to both these options in their own system? If so, what was your experience with them?
Thanks for your feedback!
popspin
 

cjf

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2012
452
101
948
Hi;
I am changing from Class D amps (Wyred4Sound SX-1000's) to Class A/B amps (Acoustic Arts Mono II's). I have all my Class D amps connected to a power strip that has some limited filtering, but no surge protection, plugged into an amp input on a Furman Ref-IT balanced power conditioner.
The plan for the new, more power hungry amps, is to plug the right and left channels directly into the dedicated 20 amp circuit with Wattgate outlets. The center channel amp will be plugged directly into the Furman. I have been told by multiple independent sources that while the Torus and Shunyata are both better than the Furman, they are not so much better that it is necessary to replace the Furman Ref-IT. So, for now, I plan to start life with the new center channel amp plugged into the Furman and see how it works out. I also plan to use the Shunyata Venom Defender Stand Alone plug in unit to provide surge protection for the amps plugged into the wall.

The rear channels are where I need your advice:
I will be adding 2 more dedicated circuits to my theater space later next year. But for now the 2 Accustic Arts Mono II amps will be plugged into the regular house circuit at the rear of my theater space. So my question is about the power conditioner to be used for the 2 surround channel amps. I have been looking at the Shunyata Triton 1 and the Torus RM15+ or RM20.
It appears that the approaches taken by the Torus and Shunyata are quite different. Am I correct in thinking that the Torus is more of a power regenerator and the Shunyata uses more of a filtering approach. They both appear to have their supporters and both seem to provide good results. Yet they are quite different from one another.
Has anybody had experience with listening to both these options in their own system? If so, what was your experience with them?
Thanks for your feedback!
popspin

From what I've gathered Torus makes an AVR series that does "regeneration" but the more popular RM line doesn't do "regeneration". Either flavor of Torus does do filtering though.

I myself am very close to pulling the trigger on a Torus RM20 which would be used for my Mono Block Amps only. Many say plugging amps into a conditioner is a bad idea (including myself for a long time) but after researching how the Torus units work I feel fairly confident that the RM20 won't be a limiting factor. It may even offer MORE juice to the amps than going straight into the wall given the storage provided by the big transformer inside of it. I've seen some numbers that say even the smaller RM15 can offer as much as 75amps of current for a sustained 10 sec burst and many times that for shorter intervals.

I also considered the AVR line as well but have gotten cold feet in fear of the power regeneration components making noise as they cycle on and off when AC power fluctuates. I've read more than a few reports of that but have not witnessed it myself. So to remain on the safe side I'm leaning towards to RM line. Plus, it has few parts to fail in the long run.

I've recently purchased two Shunyata Defenders but they are getting returned. While I didn't sense any negative effects in terms of SQ they also didn't have ANY effect on noise reduction so to me they are $400 paperweights. I would rather put that money towards something that has a higher likelihood of working as expected. To the credit of the Defenders though, they are the only Shunyata product I have used to date (HydraV2's and several flavor of snakes) which didn't make things sound worse so at least they are making progress in that regard.
 

bonzo75

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Feb 26, 2014
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Hi, so the RW20 is not a regen? Does it stabilize the voltage if the voltage from my wall is fluctuating?
 

opus112

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2016
462
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If your caps are being recharged fifty times a second then you've only a half-wave rectified supply. Best upgrade it to full-wave - half wave in a power amp surely counts as heroically badly designed.
 

KeithR

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May 7, 2010
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From what I've gathered Torus makes an AVR series that does "regeneration" but the more popular RM line doesn't do "regeneration". Either flavor of Torus does do filtering though.

the Torus doesn't do regeneration. it is a pure isolation transformer with voltage regulation and ethernet app functionality (which I don't use). having voltage regulation in the same box is convenient, so I splurged for the difference. either is much cheaper than the more popular passive units (Shunyata, Audience, RSA)

disclaimer: AVR owner
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
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the Torus doesn't do regeneration. it is a pure isolation transformer with voltage regulation and ethernet app functionality (which I don't use). having voltage regulation in the same box is convenient, so I splurged for the difference. either is much cheaper than the more popular passive units (Shunyata, Audience, RSA)

disclaimer: AVR owner

So it regulates the voltage and provides a stable output at a fixed voltage?
 

KeithR

VIP/Donor
May 7, 2010
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So it regulates the voltage and provides a stable output at a fixed voltage?

correct, with swings of 5v allowed for US voltage

http://www.toruspower.com/avr-automatic-voltage-regulation/

mine pretty much is outputting 119 or 120v at all times in real practice. it clicks once in a while, which I assume is the correction in action (when input voltage swings below 115). it's also nice to see the amperage your system is using at all times - for example, watching blu rays with my 60" plasma is triple just normal music.
 

cjf

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2012
452
101
948
correct, with swings of 5v allowed for US voltage

http://www.toruspower.com/avr-automatic-voltage-regulation/

mine pretty much is outputting 119 or 120v at all times in real practice. it clicks once in a while, which I assume is the correction in action (when input voltage swings below 115). it's also nice to see the amperage your system is using at all times - for example, watching blu rays with my 60" plasma is triple just normal music.

Which AVR model are you using and in what capacity? I'd be interested in hearing more about the noise it makes when adjusting the voltage. I could live with faint click on occasion but if its pretty audible and depending on the AC stability of the room this click could happen quite often. Do you feel it could be a disruption to the listening session if it did occur frequently? Just trying to gauge how loud it is?

Thanks
 

Popspin

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2015
104
54
258
Agree on your Torus RN20 thoughts

From what I've gathered Torus makes an AVR series that does "regeneration" but the more popular RM line doesn't do "regeneration". Either flavor of Torus does do filtering though.

I myself am very close to pulling the trigger on a Torus RM20 which would be used for my Mono Block Amps only. Many say plugging amps into a conditioner is a bad idea (including myself for a long time) but after researching how the Torus units work I feel fairly confident that the RM20 won't be a limiting factor. It may even offer MORE juice to the amps than going straight into the wall given the storage provided by the big transformer inside of it. I've seen some numbers that say even the smaller RM15 can offer as much as 75amps of current for a sustained 10 sec burst and many times that for shorter intervals.

I also considered the AVR line as well but have gotten cold feet in fear of the power regeneration components making noise as they cycle on and off when AC power fluctuates. I've read more than a few reports of that but have not witnessed it myself. So to remain on the safe side I'm leaning towards to RM line. Plus, it has few parts to fail in the long run.

I've recently purchased two Shunyata Defenders but they are getting returned. While I didn't sense any negative effects in terms of SQ they also didn't have ANY effect on noise reduction so to me they are $400 paperweights. I would rather put that money towards something that has a higher likelihood of working as expected. To the credit of the Defenders though, they are the only Shunyata product I have used to date (HydraV2's and several flavor of snakes) which didn't make things sound worse so at least they are making progress in that regard.

Hi cjm;
Yes, I have since learned that the RM20/15 does not regenerate. But based on the consistency of my power source I figured I would be OK. So I ordered one to plug 2 amps into instead of plugging them into a house circuit outlet in the rear of my listening room.
I also agree regarding your thoughts on potential issues caused by regenerstion. It's Been a great education!
Then I made a series of new decisions:
Amps changed from Accustic Arts to Ayre which draw less current
I decided to have a new 20 line breaker box installed with dedicated 15amp lines, using Shunyata outlets, for each amp and sub. Also several lines to a new equipment closet.
I have chosen to place centralized surge suppression by the new breaker box.
I have purchased several Shunyata Defenders to provide some minimal level of power conditioning and back up surge suppression for each outlet.
I have concluded that dedicated circuits like the 20amp dedicated circuit with Wattgate quad outlet I have now (also using a Furman IT-Ref 20) is the best route for me. Without the dedicated lines I would have kept the RM20 and tried it out. There was a good return policy it the unit didn't work out.
So I would say try it and trust you can return yours if it doesn't meet your expectations. The Torus products are impressive.
Good luck!
Popspin
 

cjf

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2012
452
101
948
Hi cjm;
Yes, I have since learned that the RM20/15 does not regenerate. But based on the consistency of my power source I figured I would be OK. So I ordered one to plug 2 amps into instead of plugging them into a house circuit outlet in the rear of my listening room.
I also agree regarding your thoughts on potential issues caused by regenerstion. It's Been a great education!
Then I made a series of new decisions:
Amps changed from Accustic Arts to Ayre which draw less current
I decided to have a new 20 line breaker box installed with dedicated 15amp lines, using Shunyata outlets, for each amp and sub. Also several lines to a new equipment closet.
I have chosen to place centralized surge suppression by the new breaker box.
I have purchased several Shunyata Defenders to provide some minimal level of power conditioning and back up surge suppression for each outlet.
I have concluded that dedicated circuits like the 20amp dedicated circuit with Wattgate quad outlet I have now (also using a Furman IT-Ref 20) is the best route for me. Without the dedicated lines I would have kept the RM20 and tried it out. There was a good return policy it the unit didn't work out.
So I would say try it and trust you can return yours if it doesn't meet your expectations. The Torus products are impressive.
Good luck!
Popspin

Hello Popspin,

Sounds like you went all out with installing a dedicated breaker box. Congrats.

I was curious though, when reading your post it sounded like you purchased a RM20 but didn't use it. Is that correct? If so, does that mean you tried it and didn't like it or did you not use it at all?

Thanks for the clarification
 

Popspin

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2015
104
54
258
Hello Popspin,

Sounds like you went all out with installing a dedicated breaker box. Congrats.

I was curious though, when reading your post it sounded like you purchased a RM20 but didn't use it. Is that correct? If so, does that mean you tried it and didn't like it or did you not use it at all?

Thanks for the clarification

Hi cjm;
That's correct; I bought the RM20 but then decided to take the circuit breaker box route before I used it. So I can't comment on the comparison of plugging monoblocks into it vs the wall.
My conclusion was to use the RM20 if my rear monoblocks were on house current but not to if I had a dedicated circuit as an option.
From my research I was skeptical of using the RM instead of the wall sockets. But, just as you concluded, after extensive discussions with Torus and a good vendor, it seemed RM should work well.
Curious what amps you are using and what their max amperage draw is?
Popspin
 

cjf

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2012
452
101
948
From my research I was skeptical of using the RM instead of the wall sockets. But, just as you concluded, after extensive discussions with Torus and a good vendor, it seemed RM should work well.
Curious what amps you are using and what their max amperage draw is?
Popspin

OK thanks for the clarification.

I actually just pulled the trigger on an RM20 myself and expect its arrival sometime this week. I am using Merrill Audio Veritas mono blocks based on the Hypex NC1200 amp module and SMPS.

In speaking with Torus last week we determined that the RM20 should be adequate for my usage with just the amps plugged in. Doing some Maths we concluded that the VA per amp would be right around 1000VA @ 4ohm using a figure of 750watts and a power factor of .75 since the SMPS are about 93% efficient. The amps are good for 1200w @ 2ohm and my speakers do dip into the 1.6ohm range at the very high end of the Freq spectrum (ie..20kHZ) so in that scenario technically the RM20 would be beyond its capacity with both amps hooked up but despite that I'm not expecting this will ever be an issue since pushing that many watts into my speakers would surely fry them (they are only rated to 500w).

I've been fighting a strange HF noise at boot up of my amps coming thru the speakers that I'm pretty sure is the result of something inside my house grid. I decided to use a sledge hammer approach to try and get rid of it by way of the RM20. Will see if things work out as I hope :) and if not I think the other benefits of the Torus will be worth having it any way.
 

Nyal Mellor

Industry Expert
Jul 14, 2010
590
4
330
SF Bay Area, CA, USA
As a Torus dealer, let me clear this up...

The AVR keeps the output voltage consistent by means of switching "taps" on the secondary side of the transformer. The switching is accomplished via relays. That is the clicking you hear. I'd be surprised if the relays switch at all, or at most a few times a day. Of course depends on the consistency of your incoming power feed. Consistent input voltage = no switching.
 

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