Challenge Classics

Audiocrack

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2012
2,187
695
1,158
Sadly not. On my bucket list of things to do. My wife and I hope to get to Europe in the next 10 years, and a visit to the Mauritshuis is certainly on the agenda: I very much like thier website and enjoy spending time looking at their hi resolution pictures. I hope to see the RCO while in the NL at the same time. I agree - an amazing painter.

A visit to Amsterdam in order to listen to the RCO is something you will certainly enjoy. Only a short distance (of about one kilometer) from the 'concertgebouw'/concert hall of the RCO you will find the 'Rijksmuseum' (as well as the Van Gogh museum btw that is even closer to the 'concertgebouw'). The former has various Vermeer paintings on display including the so called 'Milkmaid'. Maybe a combi visit somewhere in the future?
 

Andrew Stenhouse

New Member
Feb 14, 2016
171
1
0
Sydney, Australia
A visit to Amsterdam in order to listen to the RCO is something you will certainly enjoy. Only a short distance (of about one kilometer) from the 'concertgebouw'/concert hall of the RCO you will find the 'Rijksmuseum' (as well as the Van Gogh museum btw that is even closer to the 'concertgebouw'). The former has various Vermeer paintings on display including the so called 'Milkmaid'. Maybe a combi visit somewhere in the future?

Thank you for that wonderful information.

Yes absolutely a combo visit. We have a hankering to visit Holland (is it still called that?) and then the Scandinavian countries and Iceland. And parts of Germany. And Switzerland and...well you get the idea ha ha.

I saw the RCO when they toured Australia at the Sydney Opera House. What a wonderful orchestra. So professional. I was amazed. It was a shame that the acoustics of the SOH, always a challenge, let them down. Still I could see how wonderfully they would perform in their own home.

Thank you for posting. I have many new things to google, and explore.
 

Audiocrack

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2012
2,187
695
1,158
Thank you for that wonderful information.

Yes absolutely a combo visit. We have a hankering to visit Holland (is it still called that?) and then the Scandinavian countries and Iceland. And parts of Germany. And Switzerland and...well you get the idea ha ha.

I saw the RCO when they toured Australia at the Sydney Opera House. What a wonderful orchestra. So professional. I was amazed. It was a shame that the acoustics of the SOH, always a challenge, let them down. Still I could see how wonderfully they would perform in their own home.

Thank you for posting. I have many new things to google, and explore.

Well, that sounds like an interesting plan. The concert hall of the RCO is a nice old building with - in my view - beautiful acoustics: its sound can be charaterized as smooth and velvet. The combination of an impressive orchestra and impressive acoustics is hard to beat.

Btw, the concert hall of the Wiener Philharmoniker in Vienna is according to some (eg David Wilson of Wilson Audio) one of the very best halls in the world. In addition it is a beautiful looking hall as well. That orchestra is famous too so maybe one place to add to your bucket list?
 

Audiocrack

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2012
2,187
695
1,158
Oh, I totally forgot: the Dutch call their native country - apart from the Netherlands - indeed still Holland.
 

Andrew Stenhouse

New Member
Feb 14, 2016
171
1
0
Sydney, Australia
Well, that sounds like an interesting plan. The concert hall of the RCO is a nice old building with - in my view - beautiful acoustics: its sound can be charaterized as smooth and velvet. The combination of an impressive orchestra and impressive acoustics is hard to beat.

Btw, the concert hall of the Wiener Philharmoniker in Vienna is according to some (eg David Wilson of Wilson Audio) one of the very best halls in the world. In addition it is a beautiful looking hall as well. That orchestra is famous too so maybe one place to add to your bucket list?

Thank you mate. Very helpful.
 

Audiocrack

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2012
2,187
695
1,158
Lately I reported very enthusiastically about the latest Challenge Classics recording (volume 2) of the Prokofiev symphonies. Happy to report that I am not the only one who is thrilled by the performance as well as the sound quality (in my case: dxd file as well as dsd 256 file). I hereby insert a copy of the review of this recoring that came out today on HRAudio.net.

"Some time ago I reviewed the first volume in this series, Nos. 3 and 4, hoping that it would be the beginning of a complete set. I said that I was much impressed by the way this young American conductor was able to lend these symphonies such a surprising degree of musical value. This second volume does not only confirm my first impression, it reinforces my believe that James Gaffigan is one of the more prominent young conductors of our time

Agreed, he has at his disposal an eminent orchestra of which he is the Principle Guest Conductor: the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic Orchestra and, of course, the outstanding quality of the recording.

Leaving his first ‘classical’ symphony apart, Prokofiev’s fifth is undoubtedly his most popular and most recorded symphony, but many, me included, believe that his sixth ought to carry away the prize of his best.

Much has been said about soviet composers - of which, upon his return to his home land, Prokofiev had also become one - having to comply with directives from the Ministry of Culture, allowing the proletariat to understand and enjoy the Great Composers of the Soviet Union. In my view, and time has proven it, truly great artists have always found a way to ‘shine’ or get a message across within applied limits or other constraining factors. This was true for Shostakovich as it was to Prokofiev as well.

His sixth symphony was premiered in 1947 by the Leningrad Symphony Orchestra under Yevgeni Mravinski. It went down very well and the Soviet officials were jubilant about a composition displaying “yet again the immeasurable superiority of Soviet music over that of the capitalist West”. But things turned sour just one year later. Why? We can only speculate. Jealous Soviet composers of lesser renown complaining? Could very well have been the case, though we will never know for sure. I take it as a sign of undeniable quality. The symphony is tonal (Ministry of Culture obliging?) in its basic concept, but otherwise awkward with its three movements and unusual compositional elements. Listen and you risk being swept away, like me. Is it the composition? Surely; is it Gaffigan’s rendition? Absolutely! This one now tops my (small) list of Prokofiev 6.

To bring the 6th symphony into proper perspective, one needs a considerable sound body. The Dutch RFO is such a body with a complement of 121 musicians. With these forces Gaffigan is not only faced with an artistic challenge, what this symphony undoubtedly is, but also with an enormous management one: Holding the various groups together in a coherent and harmonious way. And if there is any suggestion of ‘friction’ in the engine, it is neither him, nor the musicians, but the composition itself. It’s all part of Prokofiev’s striving for combining an incongruent host of emotional elements from classicist lyrical to thunderous roughness in one single frame work. Gaffigan brings it off so well that one almost believes that anyone can handle it. Nothing is farther from the truth. His conducting may seemingly be effortless; the emotional impact is all the more impressive.

And then there is number 7. A children’s symphony, Prokofiev called it. He composed it a year before his passing away. He was already gravely ill. It’s rather patchy, but certainly not childish. One feels as though he, in the face of death, has swept up thoughts of the past, like walking through memory lane. I even hear a sequence reminiscent of the Tsarist (!) national anthem. At the surface it is joyful and melodious, but the end is ambiguous to the point that Soviet officials insisted that a more cheerful and energetic coda be added to the finale. Prokofiev gave in, but instructed the conductor, Samuel Samosud, to premiere it without. This is also the version on this disk.

The recording of the seventh is from an older date (2012), but in terms of sound, it is not noticeable. As said before, NorthStar Recording Services has done it again. And for the lucky ones with a surround set-up, the sound stage gets into the room, allowing the listener to absorb the music to its fullest extent.

Supposing that the missing 1, 2 and 5 will follow shortly, this will become a set to be reckoned with, irrespective of the recorded format. Is James Gaffigan such a good conductor? Better, he is phenomenal! It wouldn't surprise me if he were soon to become Music Director of an important orchestra. On the basis of his rendition of Prokofiev's sixth symphony he certainly deserves it.

Copyright © 2016 Adrian Quanjer and HRAudio.net"



Performance: five stars

Sonics (Stereo): four and a half stars

Sonics (Multichannel): five stars
 

Kal Rubinson

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2010
2,362
706
1,700
NYC
www.stereophile.com
Well, that sounds like an interesting plan. The concert hall of the RCO is a nice old building with - in my view - beautiful acoustics: its sound can be charaterized as smooth and velvet. The combination of an impressive orchestra and impressive acoustics is hard to beat.

Btw, the concert hall of the Wiener Philharmoniker in Vienna is according to some (eg David Wilson of Wilson Audio) one of the very best halls in the world. In addition it is a beautiful looking hall as well. That orchestra is famous too so maybe one place to add to your bucket list?

I made some relevant comments here: http://www.stereophile.com/content/music-round-62#swFHeMvuJqxCCKQ5.97
 

Audiocrack

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2012
2,187
695
1,158

Much appreciated Kal, very interesting to read your comments on the importance of hall acoustics. Thanks.

Bert van der Wolf of Northstar recordings, the company that records all the Challenge Classics recordings that I have listed in this thread, has said a few times to me that the sound quality of (his) recordings are more influenced by other aspects than the 'file rate'. This as reaction to my wish to order his recordings only in the 'highest rates' possible, in his case dxd and dsd 256. Undoubtedly he is right about that. That said, lately I ordered the first symphony of Mahler on Challenge Classics in dxd and dsd 256 while this recording was orginally recorded in dsd 64. While I really liked this recording, I could also hear very clearly in my set up that this original dsd 64 recording sounded less open (or if you will: more constricted) than his current - original dxd - recordings. So in my experience a good/transparent audio system let you hear also very clearly the differences in the 'file rate'.
 

Audiocrack

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2012
2,187
695
1,158
In another thread on WBF I put the following post and because it is (aldo) related to Challenge Classics I post it here as well:

On my Tidal La Assoluta/Kondo system I prefer the original dxd recordings of Challenge Classics to the dsd 256 files they make from their original dxd recordings. Although the dsd 256 files are somewhat softer sounding and from a tonality point of view more beautiful sounding, the dxd files are sounding more open and dynamic. And the tonality of the orginal dxd recordings of Challenge Classics is beautiful as well, although maybe a tad less refined. At the moment I let the Golden Gate 'upsample' everything to dsd 256 and it is this mode that I prefer the dxd files. Have not yet tried to play the Challenge Classics dxd recordings with the Golden Gate dac in pcm mode (my Lampi can do this if I want).

I am very fond of (good) original dsd recordings as well because I like their smoothness and liquidity that resembles somewhat vinyl replay. However, good pcm recordings can be extremely good as well as the original dxd Challenge Classics recordings show. For me the latter belong to the very best classical files that are available today, although I must add that I am very impressed as well by the original dsd 256 Eudora recording of guitar music by Fernando Sor. But recording a single instrument is of course much easier than recording a full orchestra as Challenge Classics is doing.

Please keep in mind that I am particularly referring to the Challenge Classics recordings that are being engineered by Bert van der Wolf and are being made available through his spiritofturtle website. Challenge classics records also with other engineers; these recordings are sometimes available in sacd. Bert van der Wolf older Turtle recordings are very good sounding as well. Some of these recordings are also available on his spiritofturtle website, albeit that these recordings are most of the time original dsd 64 recordings; these recordings are not available in dxd format.
 

Audiocrack

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2012
2,187
695
1,158
Bert van der Wolf of Challenge Classics informed me by mail this weekend that the Challenge Classics team worked hard on a better TSoT platform lately: downloading should now be much faster than it used to be.
 
Last edited:

Audiocrack

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2012
2,187
695
1,158
Btw, here is copy from www.hraudio.net of the latest Brahms serenade no. 1/ Haydn variations recording of Challenge classics:

"There is no shortage of Brahms in the Hi-Res catalogue. But not all his oeuvre is well represented. Sorely missing are a new DSD recording of his first piano concerto as well as some of his chamber music, like a complete set of the piano quartets to replace the ageing Beaux Arts on Pentatone RQR, maybe also the piano trios and the string quartets. Turning to this new disk: As far as the Serenades are concerned, the harvest is not too brilliant either. There are only 2 versions of No. 1 including this new one. Pentatone RQR gives both 1 and 2 and there is the LSO no. 2 recording with Bernard Haitink, the sound of which is, regrettably, not really heartwarming. A new No. 2 would be welcome. Concerning the Variations on a Theme by Haydn, we are pampered by having several outstanding choices. Reason enough to find out how Jan Willem de Vriend tackles it.

Before entering into the musical argument, I should like to make a remark or two on the presentation of the disk. The booklet seems to be geared to the Dutch market. In Jan Willem de Vriend’s bio, he is said to be (still) the conductor of the ‘Orkest van het Oosten’. This is true, but it won’t ring a bell outside the Netherlands where this orchestra is known by the name of ‘Netherlands Symphony Orchestra’. Similarly, his new appointment with the ‘Residentie Orkest’ may also, but perhaps to a lesser degree, create misunderstanding as this orchestra carries the name of ‘The Hague Philharmonic’.

As an item of possible interest I may add that de Vriend seems to be following Jaap van Zweden’s footsteps. He, too, directed many years ago the Netherlands Symphony, before moving on to The Hague. Could this imply a sign of Mr. de Vriend’s brilliant future? I, for one, think he is worth it. He has done wonders with his ‘old’ orchestra. This being his first recording with the ‘Residentie Orkest’, it is still early days for a definite appraisal, but what he has on offer here is certainly most encouraging.

Let me recall that until 2012 The Hague Philharmonic had an internationally well known, but at the same time an ‘end of career’ conductor (papa Järvi). After drastic cuts in the budget in the same year a new élan had to be built. In 2013 Richard Egarr was enrolled as permanent guest conductor and in the summer of 2015 Jan Willem de Vriend followed as permanent Chef. I understand that from August this year, next to him, a second Chef, Nicholas Collon, a rising talent from the UK, will be contracted to serve the younger generation. With the various aspects of classical and modern repertoire covered, everything seems to be set for giving the orchestra a new lease of life. Why all these details? With the backing of such first rate producers (Challenge Classics) and top recording team (North Star/Bert van der Wolf) we are bound to hear more of them in the future, hopefully bringing the orchestra back to an internationally recognized level it once so proudly had. I remember them playing long ago in the London Barbican in the series ‘world class orchestras’.

This is de Vriend’s first recording with his new orchestra, but it certainly isn’t the first time he stands on the rostrum. Although the sound is not (yet) the same as with the Netherlands Symphony, one can already hear the transition to a more historically aligned (for want of a better expression of being not altogether HIP) musical expression. For instance, compared to Ticciati and his Bamberger Symphoniker, de Vriend is not shy on letting the tympani rattle, making the brass sound so much more musically eloquent, while at the same ably managing the overall balance of the various sections in the orchestra. Sure, Bert de Wolf must have had a hand in this, too.

As far as the ‘game of comparative timings’ is concerned, one notes that de Vriend takes it somewhat slower than Ticciati, allowing for a more Brahmsian flow - which I particularly like - without, however, being sluggish in any way. On the contrary; his rendition is lively and vividly coloured. In one sentence: Expertly played and exquisitely recorded, what else is there to be wished for?

The variations are of a similar nature. Here, too, de Vriend takes more time than his younger colleague Ticciati, but differences are small, be it that the recording is better. In my view de Vriend is a cut above the somewhat beefy account of Janowski, and squarely different from the smooth and well-rehearsed, but nonetheless convincing Fischer. From the available super audio recordings this one can be characterized as the liveliest with lots of impetus. It won’t let you fall asleep during a concert. On the other hand, I would have preferred to have the second serenade instead. But seen as an attractive bonus to a highly spirited Serenade, this newcomer is well worth considering. It gave me over an hour of joyful listening and for me it’s right now the best available choice for both.

Foot note:

I always appreciate it when the members of the orchestra are listed. The question is whether these are the ones who are actually playing, or just a listing of the standard complement. I take it that the members listed are the ones that are playing on disk, but comparing the photo in the booklet with the listing I note that the two oboe players on the photo are female, whereas the listing gives the names of typically two Dutch males! Hence my plea to include a photo of the actual recording session. It helps getting insight in the orchestral set-up and judging the sound distribution. Whatever the case, I hasten to say that it has no bearing whatsoever on the quality of the playing. Some call it nit-picking... and they are right.


Blangy-le-Château,
Normandy, France

Copyright © 2016 Adrian Quanjer and HRAudio.net"

Adrian gave a five star rating (the highest rating) to this new recording for performance as well as for sonics.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,639
13,668
2,710
London
Do they have Brahms violin sonatas? I love all 3
 

Audiocrack

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2012
2,187
695
1,158
yes I did. I got 3 & 4, and 6 & 7. not sure which one is the new one.

still waiting for my son to get them downloaded. nice to know you consider them 'killer'.:D

View attachment 27159

The 6 & 7 is the latest/second edition to the Challenge Classics Prokofiev symphonies and is gorgeously recorded. Maybe because the (the latest Challenge Classics) files are original dxd recordings I prefer the dxd version to the dsd 256 version (while my GG 'upsamples' everything to dsd 256). May I suggest you try one file in dxd as well Mike so you are able to compare the dxd and dsd 256 versions?
 

Audiocrack

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2012
2,187
695
1,158
Next August Bert van der Wolf will record his third disc with Prokofiev symphonies in Hilversum, the Netherlands. I am trying to arrange that I can visit one of the recording days. Would be very interesting to see how these Prokofiev recordings - of which the first two installments belong to my favorite Challenge Classics recordings (along with Bach's Matthew Passion) from a sound perspective - are actually made and find out how the dxd and dsd files compare to the live event.
 

Audiocrack

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2012
2,187
695
1,158
image.jpg image.jpg image.jpg

Today I had the privilige to attend the afternoon recording session of the second symphony of Sergei Prokofiev. You are probably aware that I am very impressed with the Challenge Classics recordings made by Bert van der Wolf. But of course some of his recordings sound (even) better than others. Favourites of mine are inter alia the first two recordings of the complete Prokofiev symphonies. When I asked Bert a few months ago when the next recording of the Prokofiev symphonies would be released, he informed me that the second symphony was yet to be recorded in August of this year. After some hesitation I asked Bert if it would be possible for me to attend this recording session with James Gaffigan conducting the Netherlands Radio Philharmonic Orchestra and Bert immediately agreed.

The attached pictures show the Studio 5, MCO hall, Hilversum, the Netherlands in which this recording session took place. Btw, this hall is not so much a music hall used for concerts but much more a hall that is being used for rehearsals and recording sessions. The acoustics are (apparently) very impressive as the various recordings of Bert demonstrate (listen for example to the Bruckner recordings with Jaap van Zweden as conductor in the Challenge Classics catalogue that were also recorded in this hall).

Furthermore my pictures give you hopenly an idea about Bert's microphone set up.

In the last picture you can see James Gaffigan conducting his forces.
 
Last edited:

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing