Ron's Speaker, Turntable, Power and Room Treatment Upgrades

ddk · Jun 12, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
Well I have the Tube Traps already, so there certainly is no harm in experimenting.

And I do intend to do something for the first reflections, and I am curious to try the SMT wings, as a more contemporary alternative to RPG Modfractals.

I also have 4’ X 8’ absorber panels, so I can compare those to the SMT wings at the first reflection points and see if I hear a difference in presentation or sound-staging between diffusion and absorption there.

You're the Boss

!

david

Tango · Jun 12, 2018

ddk said:
Dear Ron,

Allow me to veto the corner Tampons and Valueless Wingies right now, not doing all that beautiful wood paneling just to stick this stuff in front of it ! With resonators less is more, a regular shaped space like yours shouldn't need more than one, of course you're still the boss!

david

Speaking of Tampons. My super nice dealer Boonyarat has more Tampons in his room than anyone I know.

Just kidding around krab.

Tang

ddk · Jun 12, 2018

It's like walking down the female needs aisle of a pharmacy, every size and every option!

david

Tango said:
Speaking of Tampons. My super nice dealer Boonyarat has more Tampons in his room than anyone I know.

View attachment 41895

Just kidding around krab.

Tang

Hi-FiGuy · Jun 12, 2018

Tango said:
Speaking of Tampons. My super nice dealer Boonyarat has more Tampons in his room than anyone I know.

View attachment 41895

Just kidding around krab.

Tang

Kronos and the Dartz please!

Skip the pharmacy isle.

Bobvin · Jun 13, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
Well I have the Tube Traps already, so there certainly is no harm in experimenting.

And I do intend to do something for the first reflections, and I am curious to try the SMT wings, as a more contemporary alternative to RPG Modfractals.

I also have 4’ X 8’ absorber panels, so I can compare those to the SMT wings at the first reflection points and see if I hear a difference in presentation or sound-staging between diffusion and absorption there.

Ron, we’ve certainly had differing goals with respect to our rooms. The last thing I wanted was to be adding additional visible treatments once my room was complete. I too had some left-over tampons from prior treatment efforts and tried them, even measured only to find they didn’t sound better and just created a dip where one wasn’t needed. Finally sold those damn things and my wife was so happy to have them out of the house. (In another thread I mentioned selling everything that isn’t bolted down to fund my jones for the new ARC mono-blocks. The tampons weren’t bolted down!)

Ron Resnick · Jul 29, 2018

Last night Tinka and I drove down to Laguna Beach to meet Marty and his delightful wife, Lisa, for the first time, and to see Steve and Cathy again.

Steve picked a fantastic restaurant, and Marty generously brought two bottles of nearly priceless wine.

We had a wonderful time!

After talking and corresponding with and posting with Marty for two years it was great finally to meet him in person!

Ron Resnick · Jul 31, 2018

The 3/4” solid walnut hardwood planks pressure-glued together have arrived.

ddk · Jul 31, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
The 3/4” solid walnut hardwood planks pressure-glued together have arrived.

View attachment 43028

Niiiiiiiiiiiice! Beginning to taste that chocolate already

!

david

Ron Resnick · Jul 31, 2018

bonzo75 · Aug 1, 2018

pcosta · Aug 1, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
The 3/4” solid walnut hardwood planks pressure-glued together have arrived.

View attachment 43028

NICE. You probably already said how you will arrange those, but can you tell us how you will use them. That is some good looking wood.

Ron Resnick · Aug 6, 2018

The sheets of walnut are made by pressure-gluing together three boards each of which is about 8' wide. (I was not previously aware of this pressure-glue process, but people I asked say the glue joint winds up being stronger than the wood itself. This is how large hardwood dining room tables are made.)

To answer your question the wood sections will be oriented vertically and be either screwed or nailed and also glued to the wood furring strips. THe wood will cover the left side wall, the right side wall and the front wall.

The wood will be sealed with a clear oil stain, as urethane can result in an acoustically reflective finish.

PeterA · Aug 6, 2018

Ron, those look nice. How will the horizontal joints be dealt with?

Ron Resnick · Aug 6, 2018

They will be putting a horizontal walnut strip or molding over the joints/seams at the 9' level and then another one at the ceiling level. I am expecting that such protrusions from the walls at those heights will not have any sonic effect.

How do you think the joints should be covered? What do you suggest?

PeterA · Aug 6, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
They will be putting a horizontal walnut strip or molding over the joints/seams at the 9' level and then another one at the ceiling level. I am expecting that such protrusions from the walls at those heights will not have any sonic effect.

How do you think the joints should be covered? What do you suggest?

I think they should be covered with wood strips. The issue becomes how many, where, how thick, etc. I have always been partial to a paneled look in wooden rooms. This means strips that form squares or rectangles, repeating around the room. The flat panels in each center "float" slightly to deal with expansion and contraction. It's an old English library look found in clubs, country estates, and some municipal or religious buildings. I don't think it would go over with your aesthetic of clean modern lines, large proportions , glass, metal. I might consider breaking up the long horizontal lines with a few vertical lines, but that is a subjective thing. If you glue each panel and there are temperature changes, you might have issues with the vertical joints between each section. I don't really know. You should ask the designer. The glued joints, being stronger than the wood itself should be fine. I wonder about gluing each panel to the furring strips. Usually the trim strips covering the joints are designed to cover the potential movement of the flat panels.

Alternatively, you could design a "reveal" strip between panels, which is a purposeful gap so that there is no butt joint which may either open up or compress with temperature and moisture changes. These reveals create shadow and break up the flat surface too. They can look very good and modern if well done.

Acoustically, a broken up wall with many raised panels may sound better than a flat large surface wall with just those two horizontal bands at 9' and at the ceiling, but that is a question for Bonnie. If you are curious, just try to find a large wall somewhere made of wood. You will find that there are ways to deal with seams.

I think what you have will go very nicely with what seems like a modern So. CA aesthetic.

I was just in Germany, so the greatest modern German architect comes to mind. Ludwig Mies van der Rohe said "God is in the details." I just found this: http://thelistenersclub.com/2014/05/21/god-is-in-the-details/

Ron Resnick · Aug 6, 2018

Yes, I agree with the expansion and contraction concern. That is why they leave a gap above panels to the ceiling and below the panels the the floor.

Thank you!

RogerD · Aug 6, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
They will be putting a horizontal walnut strip or molding over the joints/seams at the 9' level and then another one at the ceiling level. I am expecting that such protrusions from the walls at those heights will not have any sonic effect.

How do you think the joints should be covered? What do you suggest?

Many options. Walnut always looks beautiful.....very nice!

ddk · Aug 6, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
Yes, I agree with the expansion and contraction concern. That is why they leave a gap above panels to the ceiling and below the panels the the floor.

Thank you!

I would go with a multilevel 3D staggered pattern, no problem with joints or expansion issues is visually dynamic and will break up reflections.

david

Ron Resnick · Aug 7, 2018

Thank you Peter, Roger and David!

Ron Resnick · Sep 8, 2018

This sounds completely absurd (precisely because it is completely absurd) but it has taken me two months to figure out a stain for the walnut which sinks into and “seals” the wood but does not apply any kind of shiny coating which could reflect sound and change slightly the natural acoustic character of the hardwood walnut. So this means using an “oil-based” stain.

I wanted to preserve the natural color of the walnut without darkening it or changing its color. I went to the lumber store which fabricated the pressure-glued walnut planks and asked for an oil-based stain which is clear and does not change the color or tone of the walnut. He gave me the “Pure” stain from a company called Rubio monocoat, which he assured me does not darken the wood.

I learned previously that the color grey is fiendishly complicated because it is very, very difficult to find a “true” grey. In different kinds of light different greys “read” as leaning to blue or to beige or to green.

It turns out that Rubio Monocoat Pure actually makes the walnut a lot darker and brings out the grain in the walnut — exactly what I was hoping to avoid! Many people love dark wood paneling, but to Tinka and me it looks too old-fashioned and too much like a hunting trophy room or a cigar and scotch man-cave. Traditional dark wood paneling is not what we personally want for our contemporary-looking house.

So this launched me into two months of testing about nine different colors of Rubio Monocoat stains. Along the way we decided to solve the problem of not liking natural dark wood paneling by focusing on fairly heavy stains that almost “paint” the wood grey while leaving some wood grain texture peeking through.

So I have finally ordered the color we selected and we hope to begin working on the listening room wall paneling soon. We selected a Rubio Monocoat color named “Gris Belge.” I have no idea where that name comes from, but it is a grey which leans toward beige, and this counteracts the tendency of most grey stains and paints to lean toward blue which we do not want.

Just to make this whole process more maddening I also learned that once the stains dry they can look materially different from how they looked when they were first applied. The photo above shows the stain on the left looking darker and more true grey than the stain on the right. But when they both dried the stain on the right looks darker and more grey than does the stain on the left!

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