Cartridge Set Up

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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jcmusic

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May 20, 2010
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Just Outside New Orleans, La.
Hi Myles,
My audio friend Brad has one of these, he is using it to examine his stylus. Also plans to use it to get the SRA perfect he has some software to go with it and is learning the in's and out's now. I have seen some pic's at 200X WOW!!! pretty cool!!!

Jay
 

ecir43

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Jul 21, 2010
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Hey Myles, here are a couple of pics. I'll post more about it later, getting ready to go downtown right now. Geaux Saints!!!!

Brad
 

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MylesBAstor

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Thanks Brad, looking forward. After hearing your experience, will help me decide about getting one for myself :)
 

Johnny Vinyl

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May 16, 2010
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Hey Myles, here are a couple of pics. I'll post more about it later, getting ready to go downtown right now. Geaux Saints!!!!

Brad

Hi Brad,

That appears to be a different unit than the one linked. I must say it would suit my situation better. Do you have a link?

John
 

MylesBAstor

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Hi Brad,

That appears to be a different unit than the one linked. I must say it would suit my situation better. Do you have a link?

John

There are several models running from the cheapest that I listed for around $65 to over $400. They go from 200x to 500X mag that I've seen. What I'd like to know also is about the software and is there anything one could do to set up a "grid" so could roughly measure angles?
 

ecir43

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Jul 21, 2010
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Hey guys,

This is the one I purchased. I bought this cheaper model just to see how it would work.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120556832599&ssPageName=STRK:MEAFB:IT

This is the one that Fremer used
http://www.sunrisedino.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=32

Here are some videos of how the dinolite can be used.
http://www.bigc.com/demo/video_index.php

Here are some pics of the measurement software in use by Wally
http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=vinyl&n=829896&highlight

This is where Fremer or Wally Malewicz who brought this to Fremer's attention came up with that ideal # to set SRA at.
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/1240.html
http://www.audioasylum.com/audio/vinyl/messages/1247.html

Note in the pic of the cheap one I used that the plastic piece needs to be removed to get close enough to the stylus. The cheap eBay one did come with measurement software but I have yet to get the feel for using it that would prove to be accurate. One degree of angle is very minute in measurement and is hard to achieve with the cheap models software. Software does not include any gridlines. I have not experience it yet but I would think the Dinolite probably uses better software. Another advantage of the dinolite software opposed to the ebay model is it looks like the dinolite takes pics that are viewable full screen which the cheap model does not.

The tedius task is setting up to get consistant pics. The smallest movement can throw the view way off at this magnification. I tried numerous frustrating ideas before dicovering this magnetic base from harbor freight. This stand makes for stable and consistant repeatable setup. A dinolite holster was also used.
http://www.harborfreight.com/multipositional-magnetic-base-with-fine-adjustment-5645.html
http://www.sunrisedino.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=5&sort=20a&page=3
Notice in the pic that for this stand to work you will need room on your rack to place the base, not all users will have the room and other options would need to figured. The magnetic base was lacking one rod that I robbed from a soldering extra hands thing.

Almost forgot that lighting was another key issue, the light on the usb scope was not used. I opted for a usb led light for the backlight. This also proves to be very tedius to get just right to see the plain of the record to base your angle of the stylus.

You can set this up pretty cheap the route I took but will probably get a dinolite down the road just to see if the software would be worthy.

Brad
 

ecir43

New Member
Jul 21, 2010
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Your welcome Rich.

BTW thank you for the online magazine, hope it suceeds which it looks like it will. Ya'll are doing a great job!!!

Brad
 

vinylphilemag

WBF Founding Member
Apr 30, 2010
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www.vinylphilemag.com
Your welcome Rich.

BTW thank you for the online magazine, hope it suceeds which it looks like it will. Ya'll are doing a great job!!!

Brad

Many thanks for your kind comments! I must admit, my circulation numbers have been successful beyond my wildest dreams. My greatest challenges are to keep up the momentum, and turn all those eye balls into advertising revenue so that I can keep paying the bills!
 

Grainger49

New Member
May 11, 2010
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Knoxville, TN
I read the article by M. Fremer and consumed much of what he wrote. But, isn't there always a "but" I don't get the difference between VTA and SRA. If I have this right the VTA is the scribed between the plane of the LP and the center of the stylus shaft. So it is usually high, near but not 90 degrees.

Where I got lost was in the description of SRA, I had an idea that it was the complimentary angle between the stylus shaft and 90 degrees. But he said that is not what it is.

Any help would be appreciated. Not that I can change VTA/SRA on the fly, I just want to understand the delineation between the two.

Thanks,

Grainger
 

drvinyl

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Jul 10, 2018
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bazelio

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Sep 26, 2016
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That?

I actually don't get it. Unless you are able to align the microscope precisely perpendicular to the stylus, then parallax error will cause your angular measurement to be incorrect. And how could you ever be sure it is aligned precisely? It seems impossible to me. Perhaps it's a good way to get in the ballpark and then finalize by ear, but it doesn't seem like a better way than any other method for the same.
 

tima

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Mar 3, 2014
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That?

I actually don't get it. Unless you are able to align the microscope precisely perpendicular to the stylus, then parallax error will cause your angular measurement to be incorrect. And how could you ever be sure it is aligned precisely? It seems impossible to me. Perhaps it's a good way to get in the ballpark and then finalize by ear, but it doesn't seem like a better way than any other method for the same.

I agree and had the exact same thought: how do I ensure the microscope lens is perpendicular to the stylus. I suppose you could say it as how do we get the lense parallel to stylus.

One approach could be to have an object behind the stylus. If on either side of the stylus that object was in equally clear focus then the lens is roughly? perpindicular. Consider this photo I took of a Lyra Etna:

Etna USB pic.jpg

Behind the stylus is a a piece of lead from a mechanical pencil. I thought that was pretty good.

But... then I noticed the horizon above the lead appeared very slightly sloped as did the lead itself, suggesting the lens might be a hair off of perpendicular - maybe - it might be the lens is perpendicular but slightly angled - the round lenses on thes USBs can be tricky to get level. That neither validates nor invalidate the notion of using something behind the stylus to gauge lens perpendicularity. I think part of the problem (for me anyway) was being able to make really fine adjustment to the lens position. None of the stands or mounts for these small microscopes seem up to the job, at least that I can find, allow micrometer type adjustment.

The other problem I find is with using the microscope's software to discern the angles of the stylus. Being off by just a small amount (a pixel?) will change the measurement of an angle. Again an object behind the stylus may help some. The line between the pencil lead and the CD it sat on should give a common base for one leg of both left and right angle. Of course that base should be parallel, which in the picture it may not be. You still need to draw the line that creates each angle and the point of each angle must proceed from the same spot.

Once you get a measurement and if its not what you want, you need to adjust the tonearm height - another possibly v. fine adjustment - then measure again. Of course if you subsequently change VTF, you may need to start over.

Another issue is where exactly on the stylus should the angles be measured. The Etna stylus is a piece of cake but with exotic stylus shapes and cuts, its not always clear.

In my experience it takes a lot of time, patience and a moderately steady hand. But, for now, I think it is at least theoretically possible to use an USB to set the stylus at a specified angle.

I have no idea if this is a correct result, but there it is.

Measured LP S SRA.jpg

This yields an SRA of 91.8°. Benz LP S cartridge.
 
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PeterA

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Great photos, Tima. I used a USB microscope to attempt this cartridge SRA setting and found that the best use for this equipment is the nice photographs. What happens to the angle when you replace a thin classical LP with a much thicker 180g Jazz reissue?

I now make all adjustments by ear/listening.
 
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bazelio

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+1 to USB microscopes being great for pretty pictures, much less so for cartridge setup measurements.

That pencil lead needs to be perfectly parallel to the plane of the stylus edge in order to be useful. Good luck with that! :)
 
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