Our journey to "ultra" high definition video

amirm

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When talking about "UHD" or "4K" all the attention is on resolution. But as my good friend and video guru Joe Kane mentions in this video interview, the resolution advantage may be lost on most viewers. But there are other benefits such as color gamut and bit depth that may be of more value to consumers. This is a great educational video that is worth a watch:

 

RBFC

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Apr 20, 2010
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My takeaway from this is that even early adopters of current "UHD" TVs can take advantage of the "set-top boxes" which will deliver a better picture than currently available. These boxes may become part of a new generation of DirecTV receivers, etc. An unanswered question is whether HDMI 1.4 will be adequate to use with this intermediate stage in UHD's evolution.

Lee
 

Joe Whip

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The point of the show for me anyway is that one should wait for 4K sets that can do everything, including a wider color gamut than rec. 709, namely rec. 2020. If you buy a 4K set now that only has increased resolution, it will be a doorstop in 3 years. Unless you need a set now, i.e. yours is broker, wait until they get all the new 4K standards set. If there was a 1080p set that supported rec. 2020, the picture would look better than a similarly sized 4K set that does not. Of the top 4 factors in PG, resolution is number 4 behind contrast ratio, color accuracy and color saturation. I for one will wait.
 

amirm

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This is the first transition where there is no set driver for the displays. No new optical or transmission standard. There is a lose set of requirements to play content from online world but that world doesn't obey "standards." So how all of this gets sorted out is not clear.

A lot of pieces need to fall in place. It is easy to say give me 10 or 12 bit video but that requires silicon that goes up there. An 8-bit decoder is cheaper, lower power and is available now vs the others. Compatibility testing also becomes problematic.

So yes, if you are contemplating an expensive TV, then waiting may be merited as Joe says. As Lee also says, if you have HDMI 2.0 with HDCP 2.2 then some of the problems are mitigated in that you can use external boxes for decoders. To set context, HDCP is the content protection for HDMI. A few years ago, it was shown that it can be broken wide open. While copy protection systems get broken all the time, they have the ability to revoke the current systems and upgrade. HDCP as was originally designed did not envision this as it has very few keys that can be subjected to that. The push for HDCP 2.2 comes as a result of this to reset the game if you will. HDMI 2.0 is needed to support 4K at anything higher than 30 frames a second. Movies are fine there but live/sports requires 60 and some movies will too at some point. The silicon for HDMI 2.0 came out recently and left some vendors with displays that are only HDMI 1.4. Upgrading requires a hardware change, not firmware.
 

Orb

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It is interesting to see just how many 4k laptops-notebooks are coming out now, and also monitors.
I must admit I never thought 4k would become mainstream, but looks like it is the traditional "PC-laptop-notebook" type world that is going to seriously try to push it and that is pretty significant IMO.
Although ironically you need monster discrete GPUs to actually do this very well for animation-visual effects-gaming-etc

Cheers
Orb
 

Joe Whip

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The CE companies are essentially jamming 4K down our throat, whether it is ready or not. They are really desperate to get us to buy new displays given how the displays of panels dropped again in 2013 and the further inroads in pricing.
 

GaryProtein

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The point of the show for me anyway is that one should wait for 4K sets that can do everything, including a wider color gamut than rec. 709, namely rec. 2020. If you buy a 4K set now that only has increased resolution, it will be a doorstop in 3 years. Unless you need a set now, i.e. yours is broker, wait until they get all the new 4K standards set. If there was a 1080p set that supported rec. 2020, the picture would look better than a similarly sized 4K set that does not. Of the top 4 factors in PG, resolution is number 4 behind contrast ratio, color accuracy and color saturation. I for one will wait.

ANY tv you buy at any time could be considered a doorstop after three years.

If you like it, want it and can afford it, just buy it. There will always be something newer and better.
 

Joe Whip

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Again, unless you absolutely NEED a new TV, I would wait. This will all be worked out in a year, probably by CES 2014. The new sets with 10 bit color and rec .2020 in addition to possibly wider dynamic range will be MUCH better than the current crop of 4K sets. MUCH better.
 

amirm

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I agree the rough patches are being calked :). They upgraded to HDMI 2.0 and some are going after extended color gamut. Another generation or two and it would mature.

This year should also be some cheaper 4K TVs. From memory Sony has a 4K 55 inch that is only $500 more than their 1080p. That is not a bad premium.

Speaking of computer monitor, one of our customers was saying that he was buying the current 4K TVs as computer monitors! :eek: I suppose if you put it far enough it will be pretty good. I got a stiff neck last time I tried that with a 40 inch TV.
 

Orb

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I agree the rough patches are being calked :). They upgraded to HDMI 2.0 and some are going after extended color gamut. Another generation or two and it would mature.

This year should also be some cheaper 4K TVs. From memory Sony has a 4K 55 inch that is only $500 more than their 1080p. That is not a bad premium.

Speaking of computer monitor, one of our customers was saying that he was buying the current 4K TVs as computer monitors! :eek: I suppose if you put it far enough it will be pretty good. I got a stiff neck last time I tried that with a 40 inch TV.
LOL.
Sounds similar to those that use 3 monitors for gaming :)
Amusing that the "next gen" games consoles can only manage up to 1080p (and the Xbox-one is not guaranteed at that for all games).

I am still not convinced the hardware is all there yet IMO for most home entertainment needs relating to 4k.
But baffling why laptops-notebooks and 30" or smaller monitors are being pushed heavily as 4k product now, ok not baffling when considering business revenue and marketing, and creating a defacto consumer aware-known "best standard resolution/definition".
Cheers
Orb
 

amirm

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They have to go there because of tablets. We are getting to > 1080p already in tablets. If you take the same DPI, you would need to have tons more resolution in larger displays. Of course we don't look at them as closely as tablets but still, they need to become sharper.
 

GaryProtein

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I agree the rough patches are being calked :). They upgraded to HDMI 2.0 and some are going after extended color gamut. Another generation or two and it would mature.

Am I going to have to rewire my house and office? Will my HDMI 1.3 wire no longer work if I go to the new 4K?
 

amirm

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Existing cables are supposed to work with 2.0. The unknown is if the vendor properly tested it at higher data rates or not. If your cables are long, likely they will not work.
 

GaryProtein

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Orb

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They have to go there because of tablets. We are getting to > 1080p already in tablets. If you take the same DPI, you would need to have tons more resolution in larger displays. Of course we don't look at them as closely as tablets but still, they need to become sharper.
Totally agree, but 4k on notebooks and normal size monitors,etc.....it is a bit excessive, or maybe not *shrug*
Ironically though next gen consoles can never make use of anything beyond 1080p due to hardware-processing limitations of these models, but appreciate home entertainment is not just games consoles used for games/entertainment hub; shows how much hardware is needed though for doing anything beyond basic stuff in 4k.

Cheers
Orb
 

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