Searching for a phonostage

bluedoor

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2013
48
12
248
Hi guys,

I'm in the search for a new phonostage for my analog rig, right now I have a Clearaudio Balance +, but recently bought a new cartridge (Kleos) and I feel the sound, although good, doesn't have the sweetness and warmth (lacking words to describe) I'm looking for.
Looking ATM at the Nagra VPS or ARC PH6 maybe.
Considering the rest of my gear, which one (or others) do you think it goes well?
Anyone using the Nagra who could share is thoughts?
 

drunkenrabbit

New Member
Dec 1, 2013
66
2
0
Sydney, Aus
I don't think you should be heading down the Nagra path if you are after sweetness and warmth. That isn't how I would describe Nagra. More insightful, transparent, dynamic, super clean and slightly on the ..errr...cooler side of life.

I haven't heard the PH 6 - so cannot comment.

What is the budget? And what has your local dealer got that you can demo?
 

jfrech

VIP/Donor
Sep 3, 2012
2,157
753
1,160
Austin
Hi, I own the Nagra (with a Nagra VFS). It's a excellent match with Lyra cartridges. I've used it with a Helicon, Skala, and now a Atlas. It's very revealing of loading and allows you to really experiment with various gain. The tubed gain section is always on +34db. Then you can jumper in Nagra wound transformers +11db and a solid state stage +15db. So a total of 60 db. I've gone through the various combinations seeming a 100 times. The tube+step up trans seems to be the most natural...Tube+SUT+SS adds tightness/extension to the extremes and lowers the noise/increases the dynamics and most even frequency response. I am still playing with the Tube+SS (not SUT)...The Atlas has enough output to allow this for me...

I also have the MM 2nd input installed and have used the Nagra Tube only with external higher gain SUT. (EAR MC4) excellent results here to...with a Allaerts MC2 Finish cartridge or my Lyra Atlas. For the Lyra Atlas, I seem to prefer the Nagra MC input, SUT+Tube+SS (my preamp is low gain only +6db so your milage may vary here)

I've owned this phono stage for over 6 years. It's the oldest component in my system. I have directly compared it to ARC Ref 2SE, Boulder 1008, Allnic H300v, and BAT VKP10SE superpak (which I had owned before I bought the Nagra.

-The ARC has a bigger stage, tigher bass, ...but I am not a fan of the 6h30 tube and the Nagra's sweetness just won out for me...
-The Boulder is VERY good...shockingly so...will make you really think...I couldn't believe I was digging a ss phono vs tubes....but I had to change all my cables for XLRs and this slowed me down here
-The BAT lost on the Nagra's incredible transparency and a zillion color's textures in the music...my toes were tapping more...and a much better portrayal of the top end...that sweetness and extension....I've always been a fan of the 12ax7 tube...it shows here...
-The Allnic H300v is a another tough one. It's very good...better portrays space and even more texture/depth in the bass. But from the midrange up the Nagra was clearly more resolute and possesses more transparency and clarity. The Allnic seemed "dark" side by side. I will say I've heard the Allnic in a several systems and I NEVER thought those systems were dark.

I've also ran the Nagra via a Redwine Audio Black Lightning battery vs the Nagra power supply. You loose some dynamics/resolution...but gain a little in sweetness. It's a tough call on which way to go...system matching may dictate what's best for you.

A few final comments...the Nagra is VERY quiet for a tubed phono stage. Adding the Nagra VFS is crucial for top performance. I'm using the Nagra with a 25k table, a 10k arm, a 9.5k cartridge and 11k interconnects to a 30k preamp. It is NOT outclassed. It fits right in...

(Drunkenrabbit...on some of the Nagra gear like their pyramid amps (can't remember the model) had a cooler disposition...the VPS is ever so slightly warm and sweet like the Nagra PLL I used to own at least my opinion in my system with my ears ;-)
 

bluedoor

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2013
48
12
248
I don't think you should be heading down the Nagra path if you are after sweetness and warmth. That isn't how I would describe Nagra. More insightful, transparent, dynamic, super clean and slightly on the ..errr...cooler side of life.

I haven't heard the PH 6 - so cannot comment.

What is the budget? And what has your local dealer got that you can demo?

As you may have noticed English isn't my native language, so I may not made myself clear..
I like neutrality (sweetness and warmth weren't the best words I posted in the first post), and from what I've read Nagra may "fit the bill".

Budget would be around 5k, the lesser the better.

I can demo Nagra; ARC; VTL; EAT.
 

bluedoor

Well-Known Member
Jun 19, 2013
48
12
248
...on the Nagra's incredible transparency and a zillion color's textures in the music...my toes were tapping more...and a much better portrayal of the top end...that sweetness and extension....I've always been a fan of the 12ax7 tube...it shows here...

That's what I'm looking for, something that makes my toes tape more ;)
I think I might try the VPS.
 

treitz3

Super Moderator
Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
5,478
1,003
1,320
The tube lair in beautiful Rock Hill, SC
Hello bluedoor and welcome to the WBF. Glad to see you here. Have you ever considered the Jolida JD9? It utilizes the 12AX7 tube, responds well to PC upgrades and tube rolling. In my experience, it is a quiet unit that does vinyl justice. Underrated product IMO. There are minimal mods that can be done, even for those with little experience to better the performance as well. If you don't get the MKII, be sure not to utilize the stock tubs.

Tom
 

drunkenrabbit

New Member
Dec 1, 2013
66
2
0
Sydney, Aus
Hi, I own the Nagra (with a Nagra VFS). It's a excellent match with Lyra cartridges. I've used it with a Helicon, Skala, and now a Atlas. It's very revealing of loading and allows you to really experiment with various gain. The tubed gain section is always on +34db. Then you can jumper in Nagra wound transformers +11db and a solid state stage +15db. So a total of 60 db. I've gone through the various combinations seeming a 100 times. The tube+step up trans seems to be the most natural...Tube+SUT+SS adds tightness/extension to the extremes and lowers the noise/increases the dynamics and most even frequency response. I am still playing with the Tube+SS (not SUT)...The Atlas has enough output to allow this for me...

I also have the MM 2nd input installed and have used the Nagra Tube only with external higher gain SUT. (EAR MC4) excellent results here to...with a Allaerts MC2 Finish cartridge or my Lyra Atlas. For the Lyra Atlas, I seem to prefer the Nagra MC input, SUT+Tube+SS (my preamp is low gain only +6db so your milage may vary here)

I've owned this phono stage for over 6 years. It's the oldest component in my system. I have directly compared it to ARC Ref 2SE, Boulder 1008, Allnic H300v, and BAT VKP10SE superpak (which I had owned before I bought the Nagra.

-The ARC has a bigger stage, tigher bass, ...but I am not a fan of the 6h30 tube and the Nagra's sweetness just won out for me...
-The Boulder is VERY good...shockingly so...will make you really think...I couldn't believe I was digging a ss phono vs tubes....but I had to change all my cables for XLRs and this slowed me down here
-The BAT lost on the Nagra's incredible transparency and a zillion color's textures in the music...my toes were tapping more...and a much better portrayal of the top end...that sweetness and extension....I've always been a fan of the 12ax7 tube...it shows here...
-The Allnic H300v is a another tough one. It's very good...better portrays space and even more texture/depth in the bass. But from the midrange up the Nagra was clearly more resolute and possesses more transparency and clarity. The Allnic seemed "dark" side by side. I will say I've heard the Allnic in a several systems and I NEVER thought those systems were dark.

I've also ran the Nagra via a Redwine Audio Black Lightning battery vs the Nagra power supply. You loose some dynamics/resolution...but gain a little in sweetness. It's a tough call on which way to go...system matching may dictate what's best for you.

A few final comments...the Nagra is VERY quiet for a tubed phono stage. Adding the Nagra VFS is crucial for top performance. I'm using the Nagra with a 25k table, a 10k arm, a 9.5k cartridge and 11k interconnects to a 30k preamp. It is NOT outclassed. It fits right in...

(Drunkenrabbit...on some of the Nagra gear like their pyramid amps (can't remember the model) had a cooler disposition...the VPS is ever so slightly warm and sweet like the Nagra PLL I used to own at least my opinion in my system with my ears ;-)

Great post! and of course defer to your experience. I was posting about my general impression of Nagra, so in hindsight could have bene leading the OP completely off track.

I'd say get demoing! - if you have access to those great brands, borrow each for a week and see what you think.

Cheers
dr
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing