Sublime Sound

KeithR · Dec 22, 2019

bonzo75 said:
Oh I like YG. I think they are quite different. That said I did not see him dem horns much, and his second favorite is still devore

And @jeffrey_t and I are going to the new Devore dealer next week to hang out. We will hear the O96 for fun.

Just a quick comment on horns in the US - I spoke with the Cessaro distributor this week who *still* hasn't received his Wagners that he was hoping to have for LA this past summer. Ralph just doesn't focus on lower priced horns. The distributor wasn't sure he'd be exhibiting with them perhaps till mid-2020. Horns in the US are just plain hard. I was fortunate to hear AG Duo XDs in London and Tune Audios at the LA show along with the modded Altecs VOTTs.

I believe Peter should just visit David at some point, if anything just for his interest in TTs.

microstrip · Dec 22, 2019

Al. M said:
(...) I do overall agree with Peter and David on pneumatic platforms, power cords and power conditioning.

Sorry, but considering your divergences with David in so many other subjects this type of agreement is meaningless. IMHO such negative agreements in general are of little interest as they are specific to very particular rooms and conditions of operation.

bonzo75 · Dec 22, 2019

microstrip said:
Sorry, but considering your divergences with David in so many other subjects this type of agreement is meaningless. IMHO such negative agreements in general are of little interest as they are specific to very particular rooms and conditions of operation.

Sorry, I don't know why that quote shows bonzo75 as the quoter? Can you correct? I understand you are always on the trigger to reply to me, but here am flattered you mistake me with Marc

DaveC · Dec 22, 2019

ddk said:
I'm trying to understand the term super tweaky in respect to a mass produced industrial power cord with no claims of doing anything besides supply power to equipment vs a "Designed" one built from curated parts that all do something for the purpose of altering and shaping what you hear in the "Designer's" image !

This is a gross misrepresentation.

I explain exactly what my design parameters are in my previous post, which you ignored, and they are based on science and engineering.

I'm happy to discuss, but this is unacceptable to mischaracterize me like this.

What I'm saying is, your setup is based more on subjective preference and not accepted best practices. I'm also saying that is fine and I'm not judging how it sounds at all. It may be awesome!

And it probably is from what I've heard...

bonzo75 · Dec 22, 2019

KeithR said:
And @jeffrey_t and I are going to the new Devore dealer next week to hang out. We will hear the O96 for fun.

Just a quick comment on horns in the US - I spoke with the Cessaro distributor this week who *still* hasn't received his Wagners that he was hoping to have for LA this past summer. Ralph just doesn't focus on lower priced horns. The distributor wasn't sure he'd be exhibiting with them perhaps till mid-2020. Horns in the US are just plain hard. I was fortunate to hear AG Duo XDs in London and Tune Audios at the LA show along with the modded Altecs VOTTs.

I believe Peter should just visit David at some point, if anything just for his interest in TTs.

What amps on the devore

Folsom · Dec 22, 2019

PeterA said:
I feel as though I am being cross examined on the witness stand in the horn vs Magico trial of the century.

Oh don’t feel alone, Ked (

) has put the whole forum on trial. He’s even referring to himself in third person like it’s a force of nature out of his control.

ddk · Dec 22, 2019

DaveC said:
This is a gross misrepresentation.

I explain exactly what my design parameters are in my previous post, which you ignored, and they are based on science and engineering.

I'm happy to discuss, but this is unacceptable to mischaracterize me like this.

What I'm saying is, your setup is based more on subjective preference and not accepted best practices. I'm also saying that is fine and I'm not judging how it sounds at all. It may be awesome! And it probably is from what I've heard...

Not at all, I asked what super-tweaky means comparing your "Design" parameters and sonic claims vs what you'll find on CC's website.

We know that CC's products are engineered and manufactured to strict standards set by various well known international authorities, so who's accepted best practices are you referring to?

You're not judging the sound when you say something is soft and dark?

david

Folsom · Dec 22, 2019

Also I would say if you’re still using the word detail you’ve got a ways to go. Resolution is hearing music, detail is hearing stereo.

PeterA · Dec 22, 2019

spiritofmusic said:
Peter, I get yr changes, and the mindset behind them. Your perceived uptick is all that matters. I remain perplexed that the Vibraplane has in retrospect proved to be negative under yr tt. My pneumatic tt isolation in my case has been unequivocally positive, shown each time I've supported my tt on alternative supports. Do you remain adamant Vibraplane is now not for yr SME?

Marc, you have interpreted my posts in a way different than I intended. I did not write that the "Vibraplane is a negative under my tt". Nore did I say that I remain adamant that Vibraplane is now not for my SME." I don't know where you got this.

I tried to describe the sound I hear with and without my various pneumatic isolation platforms, including the Townsend Seismic Sinks. The platforms change the sound. It is different, and I now prefer the sound without them. That is all. No value judgement. No better or worse judgment. Just how the sound changes. This after following the advice I received on the user feedback thread in which people seemed to suggest that feedback and sharing impressions is a good and useful thing as long as it is done in an open, honest, and respectful manner.

You are hearing something you like with your Stacores. That is fine. You are placing a "positive" value or judgment on your experience with your product. My posts are trying to do something different. I try to avoid advocating for the products I own but rather just describe what they do, or at least I hope that will be my approach going forward. I can always improve.

DaveC · Dec 22, 2019

ddk said:
Not at all, I asked what super-tweaky means comparing your "Design" parameters and sonic claims vs what you'll find on CC's website.

We know that CC's products are engineered and manufactured to strict standards set by various well known international authorities, so who's accepted best practices are you referring to?

You're not judging the sound when you say something is soft and dark?

david

Well, power cables have many design parameters audiophiles don't necessarily require so they can be stepped on, run over by cars, etc. and not short-circuit. The wires arrangement of the triple-twist is also related to robustness not required for sitting behind a rack.

Also, commodity power cables are built as cheaply as possible, for audio the price isn't as much of a factor so many more materials and designs are possible that are not for a commodity cable.

Look, CC was the best of a bunch of cheaply made cables that had no intent to be used in high end audio systems. CC was the best of a bunch of cables you loaded into your cart on alibaba that day.

I'll also say this, and maybe I shouldn't but here goes... My PSR-14 power cable was designed according to totally objective engineering standards, and actually no part of it's design was a result of subjective testing. AT ALL. I did thoroughly test it of course, and the result was exactly what I expected from a power cable that was designed as a cost-no-object device with the best materials and engineering possible.

PeterA · Dec 22, 2019

microstrip said:
Well, I can not find any meaning it that ... What is it supposed to mean?

I don't know if it means anything, Fransisco. That is why I asked the question to whomever reads my post.

It seems to me that Kedar is telling me to get out more, discover the alternatives, and in so doing, I will conclude that the Magicos are terrible and end up dumping them. Keith has spent a year searching, and rather than switching to horns or some speaker other than what he has, it seems he will either end up where he started and keep his Devores, or he will get the YGs which to me seem more similar to my Magicos than they do to most of the other speakers he heard. YG and Magico are often compared to each other for having similar typology, and materials. But then I may be completely wrong. I'm just asking.

Based on the certainly with which Kedar proclaims the superiority of horns over speakers like Magico, I wonder what Kedar thinks about Keith liking the YGs so much. Keith has his reasons for liking the YGs, and I have my reasons for liking my speakers, especially now as they were quite capable of allowing me to hear my many recent changes.

bonzo75 · Dec 22, 2019

Folsom said:
Oh don’t feel alone, Ked ( ) has put the whole forum on trial. He’s even referring to himself in third person like it’s a force of nature out of his control.

I referred to myself as third person and micro quoted Marc as me. Multiple personality disorder

spiritofmusic · Dec 22, 2019

PeterA said:
Marc, you have interpreted my posts in a way different than I intended. I did not write that the "Vibraplane is a negative under my tt". Nore did I say that I remain adamant that Vibraplane is now not for my SME." I don't know where you got this.

I tried to describe the sound I hear with and without my various pneumatic isolation platforms, including the Townsend Seismic Sinks. The platforms change the sound. It is different, and I now prefer the sound without them. That is all. No value judgement. No better or worse judgment. Just how the sound changes. This after following the advice I received on the user feedback thread in which people seemed to suggest that feedback and sharing impressions is a good and useful thing as long as it is done in an open, honest, and respectful manner.

You are hearing something you like with your Stacores. That is fine. You are placing a "positive" value or judgment on your experience with your product. My posts are trying to do something different. I try to avoid advocating for the products I own but rather just describe what they do, or at least I hope that will be my approach going forward. I can always improve.

Sure Peter. I guess because my experience has been so drastic, and tbh has saved me from drifting en masse to digital, I cannot now imagine going fwds without it under my tt. For me, this is not simply a matter of taste, it's a total necessity. You remember my early faltering experiences reinstalling my analog 2 yrs ago. Never again.

NorthStar · Dec 22, 2019

Peter, this is amazing your pure dedication towards audio ecstasy.
...Your personal unique journey, and that you generously share with all your friends, by taking the full measure of your dedicated time. It has to be commended.

spiritofmusic · Dec 22, 2019

bonzo75 said:
I referred to myself as third person and micro quoted Marc as me. Multiple personality disorder

That's unsatisfactory to both of us.

bonzo75 · Dec 22, 2019

PeterA said:
I don't know if it means anything, Fransisco. That is why I asked the question to whomever reads my post.

It seems to me that Kedar is telling me to get out more, discover the alternatives, and in so doing, I will conclude that the Magicos are terrible and end up dumping them. Keith has spent a year searching, and rather than switching to horns or some speaker other than what he has, it seems he will either end up where he started and keep his Devores, or he will get the YGs which to me seem more similar to my Magicos than they do to most of the other speakers he heard. YG and Magico are often compared to each other for having similar typology, and materials. But then I may be completely wrong. I'm just asking.

Based on the certainly with which Kedar proclaims the superiority of horns over speakers like Magico, I wonder what Kedar thinks about Keith liking the YGs so much. Keith has his reasons for liking the YGs, and I have my reasons for liking my speakers, especially now as they were quite capable of allowing me to hear my many recent changes.

To quote correctly, irrespective of whether I think horns are superior, the important message is to just listen to components different from what you are used to, to check if there is any potential. Then you can decide.

PeterA · Dec 22, 2019

microstrip said:
Peter,
Why did you select only "fancy" products to compare with your current choices? To create a price negative bias on them? I can't understand the ending sentence - what can we expect from power cables in objective terms?

BTW, why not referring to the alternative cables by a more objective word, such as "more elaborate" or "audiophile"?

Most recently I have tried my Pass stock, Ching Cheng, Transparent RefXL, and two audiophile power cords designed by members of this forum. I am not purposely using the term to create a negative bias, but who knows? Is that you perception? The three fancy audiophile cords are all about the same price. I own one of them and price was only a consideration in the evaluation in the sense that I would have considered the cost versus sonic benefit if I had preferred the more expensive cords to my stock or CC cords. Since I did not, it was not a factor.

I use the word "fancy" because it is easy and descriptive. These cords look much nicer than my stock or Ching Cheng cords, and the connectors are what I would describe as fancy looking. They are also expensive. Expensive and nice looking means fancy to me. I don't know if they are more elaborate than the Ching Chengs. I have used interchangeably the words fancy and audiophile.

How is the term "audiophile" objective?

bonzo75 · Dec 22, 2019

KeithR said:
And @jeffrey_t w along with the modded Altecs VOTTs.

Those I read were basic Altec 19s. VOTTS get quite big and powerful.

PeterA · Dec 22, 2019

spiritofmusic said:
Sure Peter. I guess because my experience has been so drastic, and tbh has saved me from drifting en masse to digital, I cannot now imagine going fwds without it under my tt. For me, this is not simply a matter of taste, it's a total necessity. You remember my early faltering experiences reinstalling my analog 2 yrs ago. Never again.

Marc, could you describe how the sound changes to you when you deflate the Stacore platforms? Particularly the blackness of the background, the quality of the bass, (extension, impact, and definition), and what happens to harmonics. I am curious to learn if the effect is similar or very different in your system. I have done this repeatedly in my system, before and after speaker positioning, removing of the room treatments. I also took the Townsend SSs to Al M.'s system and heard the same effect, as well as one of the fancy audiophile power cords. The sound changed in very similar ways with these devices in both of our systems.

PeterA · Dec 22, 2019

bonzo75 said:
To quote correctly, irrespective of whether I think horns are superior, the important message is to just listen to components different from what you are used to, to check if there is any potential. Then you can decide.

I like that and will make the effort.

I heard Jeffrey_t's speakers, KeithR's speakers when I visited Ron last Spring. They are certainly different from mine. I also regularly hear Ack's speakers, and Al M.'s. They too are quite different. I'd like to hear some more horns besides the VOTT and JBL Everest, but as Keith wrote, not so easy in the US.

It takes a lot of time to do this correctly. When I have the time to prioritize, I will give it a shot.

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