Klaudio Record Cleaning Machine Review

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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distilled is just that, water heated to 212 F boiling and the steam is condensated back into water, presumably free of anything but water. Osmosis is simply filtering water.

Sorry, Christian, but reverse osmosis is NOT simple filtering.

Reverse osmosis removes dissolved substances which filtering will not. Filtering is often needed before the reverse osmosis process.

Reverse osmosis uses pressure and a semi-permeable membrane. It can remove even molecules and ions from the water and so can remove salt from sea water. There is quite a range of technology involved, and can result in a range of quality of water. Extremely pure, sometimes, it is called de-ionized water. Early reverse osmosis technology can pass fairly large molecules, so not everything is removed.

Distilled water is the steam condensed from water being heated to boiling point. It's quality is determined by the process (the materials the still is made of) and also whether there is anything dissolved in the water that has a lower boiling point than water that will be condensed with the steam. For example, if you boil bourbon at 212 F and condense the steam, you get essentially vodka.

Reagent water is the purest form of water possible.

I buy distilled water for my Klaudio, but for convenience, I've been using drinking water from my office water cooler which has a 3-stage filter. A particulate filter which removes undissolved substances, and a carbon filter which removes (mostly) organic dissolved substances and chlorine, and a permeable membrane which removes larger molecules (a semi-permeable reverse osmosis membrane removes smaller molecules as well).

I have found NO difference in the records cleaned between distilled water, water cooler water, or tap water.

I'm assuming that the dissolved chlorine in tap water *might* attach the vinyl, so the water cooler water *might* be better (tastes a lot better too!!).
 

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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I found this link helpful, and if you go to their main site they describe all the different kinds of processes for purifying water from distilled to reverse osmosis to various forms of filtration.

http://www.millipore.com/references/files/pmc_url/$file/RP1795EN00.pdf
 

Johnny Vinyl

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May 16, 2010
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In the whole scheme of things is it really going to matter? Distilled, reverse-osmosis, reagent? If someone can hear a difference let me suggest they buy a bowler hat, cart and wagon and go on the circuit from hamlet to village to town.
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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In the whole scheme of things is it really going to matter? Distilled, reverse-osmosis, reagent? If someone can hear a difference let me suggest they buy a bowler hat, cart and wagon and go on the circuit from hamlet to village to town.

imo, I think $2/gallon distilled is fine. That is what I use now.
 

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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In the whole scheme of things is it really going to matter? Distilled, reverse-osmosis, reagent? If someone can hear a difference let me suggest they buy a bowler hat, cart and wagon and go on the circuit from hamlet to village to town.

John just the simple step from tap to ionized water made a huge difference in what you could see on a painted surface when detailing a car. Whether that is audible begs the question, but I wouldn't want to leave contaminants on the record surface.
 

garylkoh

WBF Technical Expert (Speakers & Audio Equipment)
Sep 6, 2010
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John just the simple step from tap to ionized water made a huge difference in what you could see on a painted surface when detailing a car. Whether that is audible begs the question, but I wouldn't want to leave contaminants on the record surface.

You mean de-ionized water. Yes, it does. And using de-ionized water would make a bigger difference (I think) than distilled water. I know that de-ionized changes the surface tension of the water too - which is what you are seeing on the painted surface of a car.
 

Johnny Vinyl

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
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John just the simple step from tap to ionized water made a huge difference in what you could see on a painted surface when detailing a car. Whether that is audible begs the question, but I wouldn't want to leave contaminants on the record surface.


I was only commenting on "purified, contaminant-free water" and all things being relatively equal.
 

Bill Hart

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May 11, 2012
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You mean de-ionized water. Yes, it does. And using de-ionized water would make a bigger difference (I think) than distilled water. I know that de-ionized changes the surface tension of the water too - which is what you are seeing on the painted surface of a car.
Yes, I was typing that on my phone.
 

Klaudio

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Jul 16, 2013
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@ Tim,

Youi have also suggested in the manual (not sure but I did read it somewhere) that you can also use normal tap water for cleaning the records. Have you tried it and what are your thoughts on it.
I use reverse-osmosis (5 stage filetered) water in the Kaudio and Audio Desk (with very litlle cleaning fluid - half cap full) and it works wonders.

All of our photos, including before/after with a microscope uses tap water. We originally suggested tap or distilled, but we can't control a customer's water hardness. If you don't have a high mineral content, tap water is fine. I would keep an eye on it, and drain and allow the unit to dry-out before any biological growth becomes apparent. That's also highly dependent on your local water.

Tim
 

Suteetat

New Member
Sep 3, 2013
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All of our photos, including before/after with a microscope uses tap water. We originally suggested tap or distilled, but we can't control a customer's water hardness. If you don't have a high mineral content, tap water is fine. I would keep an eye on it, and drain and allow the unit to dry-out before any biological growth becomes apparent. That's also highly dependent on your local water.

Tim

So if I understand correctly, distilled, tap water or whatever water is more about maintenance of the machine rather than about cleaning LP then. Is this correct?
 

Suteetat

New Member
Sep 3, 2013
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Not sure what happened to my response.

No, distilled water is necessary for the cleaning. US requires a medium to travel through (eg. like US/gel used in PT) and in this instance clean the LP.

Opps, sorry for not being so clear in my last statement. Actually, what I meant to say is that the type of water used has more to do with preventing the built up of calcium, magnesium or other minerals in the machine rather than how clean the LP will be? I assume this is the case since Tim seems to be more concerned about water hardness and mineral contents in the water and talked about biological growth in the machine ( presumbably 2nd to phosphate content).
Or does water hardness effect the effectiveness of US or is the mineral deposit on LP after drying is also a major concern. Certainly you can get all kind of mineral deposit in a shower with hard water but that's with repeated daily use for a long time with a lot more water involved.
 

Klaudio

New Member
Jul 16, 2013
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Opps, sorry for not being so clear in my last statement. Actually, what I meant to say is that the type of water used has more to do with preventing the built up of calcium, magnesium or other minerals in the machine rather than how clean the LP will be? I assume this is the case since Tim seems to be more concerned about water hardness and mineral contents in the water and talked about biological growth in the machine ( presumbably 2nd to phosphate content).
Or does water hardness effect the effectiveness of US or is the mineral deposit on LP after drying is also a major concern. Certainly you can get all kind of mineral deposit in a shower with hard water but that's with repeated daily use for a long time with a lot more water involved.

Yes, it's more about maintenance of the machine. We haven't seen a noticeable difference in cleaning performance between distilled and tap water on the LP itself. This might be due to the relatively high transducer wattage (not needing a surfactant, etc).

Tim
 

Stump

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2012
153
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7-inch 45 rpm LP Adapter for Ultrasonic Vinyl Cleaner for KLaudio is available on the web site $99 !!:)
Stump


kd-adt-lp07_p1-228x228.jpg
kd-adt-lp07_p2-700x700.jpg
 

kleinbje

Well-Known Member
Dec 20, 2012
181
24
923
CT
Thanks Tim. Bought it before yours came out:) Anyone try these in an Audiodeske? They look like they were designed to mimic 12 inch records, and not proprietary.
 

curbfeeler

Well-Known Member
Apr 19, 2012
28
12
910
I bought the Klaudio RCM. It experienced a motor failure before the first record was dry. I contacted the seller and arranged to return it to Klaudio as they are nearby. Tim exchanged the unit for a new one tout suite. The replacement unit didn’t appear to wet the record, but an examination with a light revealed that the cleaning chamber was properly filled. Off to the races now. Cleaned and played several discs well-known to me and was mightily impressed. Gave the wide-band Decca SXL pressing of Britten’s Simple Symphony the full five minute wash and it sounded more profound and dynamic with a quieter backdrop. It has seen hand scrubbing with the Disc Doctor fluid and brushes plus a few minutes in the Audiodesksysteme RCM prior to my time with the Klaudio RCM. Another record that improved markedly was Cahoots by The Band. I could hear deep into the mix and it was easier to follow the lyrics. Quieter background, too. I’d forgotten how great this record is.
The ultrasound treatment is obviously very energetic. Brushing my fingers on either side of a disc as it was cleaned the vinyl felt warm.
Stan
 

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