Let's Talk Computer Audio

Steve Williams

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I like its features and ease of use on Windows.

I checked and they have released 11 OSX versions so far in May so evidently they are releasing builds faster since it is still considered alpha/beta. With the Windows versions they release a daily build to the beta team which consists of about 100 users. I am a beta tester and have installed 191 builds so far in version 18. I've been a user since version 9 and a beta tester since around version 15. I install every build on my laptop, HTPC, and work computer. About once a week a build is released to the public. Based on thread responses by the development team, I've seen feature requests be added or bugs fixed in less than 30 minutes. However, the user that made the request might have to wait 3-5 days to get the build that contains the feature.

I also just noticed that they switched from calling the OSX version Alpha to calling it Beta on 5/23.
what does one build do that the previous ones didn't. IOW why so many upgrades so quickly
 

Andre Marc

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what does one build do that the previous ones didn't. IOW why so many upgrades so quickly

Steve, Jriver made it clear when they released the initial Beta version for MAC that the software was unstable and unfinished. That is why they offered
a deep discount. They are catching up. Pure Music, Audirvana, and Amarra have half a decade advantage in being exclusive to the Mac environment.

They are trying to get it ready for prime time and are fixing bugs and issues on the fly. A la Microsoft.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
what does one build do that the previous ones didn't. IOW why so many upgrades so quickly

but I thought Mojave says that there are PC version builds every week. Are there that many bugs
 

Andre Marc

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but I thought Mojave says that there are PC version builds every week. Are there that many bugs

Steve, unless I missed something, he was referring to OSX. I will go back and read his posts, but I am almost sure he talking MAC platform. I have
Jriver 18 and there are not weekly updates.
 

Andre Marc

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but I thought Mojave says that there are PC version builds every week. Are there that many bugs

Ok, it seems for Windows they have a beta testing team of about 100, of which he is a part, and they release a lot updates
for these beta guys to test. Then a BETA version is released to the public, but is not considered a program "update", but an optional download.

It really is interesting how similar it is to Microsoft.
 

still-one

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Using software being built on the fly in beta or alpha version is not for a novice user. Wise man waits until the dust settles.

Or for the novice user or someone who has no wish to deal with integrating the various pieces of software and hardware you go with something such as Meridian's MDMS (aka SooLoos). The inability to play DSD will remove this as an option for some who are looking for a handful of great sounding titles, whereas MDMS is the easiest way to organize large libraries of both old and newer music. The way it integrates Rhapsody for those titles that you might like to have for the occasional listen and not have to purchase is a big plus.
 

Andre Marc

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Or for the novice user or someone who has no wish to deal with integrating the various pieces of software and hardware you go with something such as Meridian's MDMS (aka SooLoos). The inability to play DSD will remove this as an option for some who are looking for a handful of great sounding titles, whereas MDMS is the easiest way to organize large libraries of both old and newer music. The way it integrates Rhapsody for those titles that you might like to have for the occasional listen and not have to purchase is a big plus.

Sooloos is the interface champ for sure. But I think it can bettered sound wise.

DSD? Hardly a consideration for someone who not even ripped a Redbook CD losslessly or purchased a PCM download.
 

edorr

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Sooloos is the interface champ for sure. But I think it can bettered sound wise.

DSD? Hardly a consideration for someone who not even ripped a Redbook CD losslessly or purchased a PCM download.

I have not used sooloos, but I can not see how anyone could want anything more out of an interface than JRemote on an iPad, which is a $9.99 proposition.
 

Andre Marc

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I have not used sooloos, but I can not see how anyone could want anything more out of an interface than JRemote on an iPad, which is a $9.99 proposition.

Sooloos is the ultimate in luxury for many. You sit beside it and use a large touch screen. Different strokes for different folks.

I met a guy with a Sooloos who had around 300 CDs. Real music lover..lol.
 

still-one

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Sooloos is the interface champ for sure. But I think it can bettered sound wise.

DSD? Hardly a consideration for someone who not even ripped a Redbook CD losslessly or purchased a PCM download.

It is possible that it can bettered sound wise but you will have to look hard to beat it if you output the sound thru a Meridian 808v3 or v5 endpoint DAC.
 

still-one

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Sooloos is the ultimate in luxury for many. You sit beside it and use a large touch screen. Different strokes for different folks.

I met a guy with a Sooloos who had around 300 CDs. Real music lover..lol.

That is incorrect. The MC-200 "lists" for $4k and the iPad app eliminates the need for that large touchscreen.
 

Andre Marc

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It is possible that it can bettered sound wise but you will have to look hard to beat it if you output the sound thru a Meridian 808v3 or v5 endpoint DAC.

I must confess to be a bit out of date on the Sooloos system. I know the current model line up is quite a bit different.
 

Andre Marc

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That is incorrect. The MC-200 "lists" for $4k and the iPad app eliminates the need for that large touchscreen.

So they don't supply a screen any more and the app is the current GUI? Interesting.

EDIT: Wait I see the control center is still an option.
 

still-one

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Sooloos is the ultimate in luxury for many. You sit beside it and use a large touch screen. Different strokes for different folks.

I met a guy with a Sooloos who had around 300 CDs. Real music lover..lol.

An individual with a large CD collection is a collector not a music lover. I get rid of music I do not listen to regularly. I like finding new music and artists and not rehashing the same old artists I grew up with in the 60's- 70's.
 

Andre Marc

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An individual with a large CD collection is a collector not a music lover. I get rid of music I do not listen to regularly. I like finding new music and artists and not rehashing the same old artists I grew up with in the 60's- 70's.

Huh? That makes utterly no sense. So Michael Fremer is not a music lover with his 20,000 Lps? Jeff Dorgay with his 9000 CDs?

I beg to differ. I have 5000 CDs, and a 1000 downloads. I mine my entire collection. I go to see live music 2x a month. Going
to see Trixie Whitley tomorrow night, then Scott Weiland next week.

My mind is boggled at your statement.
 

mojave

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but I thought Mojave says that there are PC version builds every week. Are there that many bugs
JRiver does release weekly publicbuilds for the PC Version. Each build is considered stable and usually adds new features or changes the way things work based on user feedback. Only the new features are considered beta. There are also third party audio and video codecs that are updated to the latest version and foreign language updates. Sometimes the new features or changes cause a bug, sometimes OS or driver updates reveal a bug, and sometimes there is just an oversight. Most of the bug fixes are such corner cases that I have never noticed them. Between my family and I we use JRiver about 8-12 hrs a day on 3 computers. I might find about 1 actual bug every couple months.

It is a different model than any software I've ever seen. It is constantly evolving. A person can choose to use the version they download the day they purchased, but getting the weekly builds is only to one's benefit. Like JRiver says, each version is worse than the next. :) JRiver always calls its releases Beta since they contain new features that haven't yet been vetted for several weeks.

They are completely open with what they are doing. For example, here are the changes listed on their website for the past two weeks. You can see there are things being worked on the audio, video, TV, and image playback.
18.0.191 (5/28/2013)

1. Changed: Default graph-building for analog television tuners is more robust.
2. Changed: Added the ability to select the output bitdepth when using Kernel Streaming (Options > Audio > Output mode settings...).
3. Changed: MC automatically detects whether Ceton InfiniTV (and possibly other CableCARD television tuners) are in used (by another application or on another computer on the network), so there is no need to manually allocate the tuners for each computer.
4. Changed: Updated Korean language file (thanks Junghwan).
5. Changed: Updated Polish translation (thanks Janusz Grzybek).
6. Fixed: When emailing images, it wasn't possible to pick the option 'Original size'.
7. Fixed: Audio Path could incorrectly account for the output bitdepth in the last few builds causing it to incorrectly say 'not using enough bits to output the input directly'.
8. Fixed: DoPE bitstreaming was not working properly in the last few builds.
9. Changed: The volume and mute state for a DLNA device is queried in a background thread so that unresponsive devices will not slow or freeze the user interface.
10. Changed: SSA subtitle takes into account when the subtitle file resolution does not match the content resolution when sizing subtitles.
11. Fixed: In some cases, line-in and loopback playback could incorrectly analyze the buffer state causing playback issues.
12. Changed: Added full support for DSD bitstreaming using DoP to the Kernel Streaming plugin.
13. Changed: DoP works when playing with WASAPI when event style is diabled.

18.0.190 (5/21/2013)

1. Changed: When bitstreaming video, Audio Path will show nice information.
2. Changed: Add Channel tool for Clear QAM TV tuners has entries for "Program Number" and "Virtual Channel". Major channel, minor channel, and frequency are no longer mandatory.
3. Fixed: Video Conversion to AVI and FLV, also possibly fixes the audio track of other formats.
4. NEW: Updated libav (for video conversion). Thanks Nev!

18.0.189 (5/20/2013)

1. Changed: Updated Polish translation (thanks Janusz Grzybek).
2. Changed: madVR in full screen exclusive mode could prevent Theater View from showing properly.
3. Fixed: When zooming into an item in a Theater View flow list, the animation could appear jerky in some cases.
4. Fixed: Instructions shown over Theater View could flicker.
5. Fixed: Child wizard dialogs, like used in Options > Remote Control, weren't supporting the OK and Cancel buttons properly in some cases.
6. Changed: Radio buttons will use multiple lines for their text when necessary instead of truncating the text (helps with large font sizes).
7. Fixed: Video conversion could use file path settings from the audio converter.
8. Changed: Updated the French language translation (thanks rlebrette).
9. Fixed: If a connection to a Library Server was sporadic, it could lead to cases where a link to external cover art could be lost.
10. Fixed: Mono ALAC files were not being parsed or played correctly.
11. Fixed: DLNA slideshow push. The transition from first to second image in a playlist of images was not happening on the timer properly. This change may also make it more likely to work on devices that were having trouble with the slideshow mode.

18.0.188 (5/17/2013)

1. Fixed: In some cases, 5.1 input was not working with the FLAC encoder.
2. Fixed: When using 'Gapped' playback mode, the gap would not be honored when switching hardware output formats (normally sample rate).
3. Fixed: The playback position could be incorrect when using a gapped playback mode.
4. Fixed: In some cases, the player bar could draw incorrectly (only applies to the last few builds).
5. Changed: The borders in Display View / Cover View will not hide while a right-click menu is showing.
6. Fixed: Video to audio conversion was not working properly with DVD.
7. Fixed: Some video conversions were not working properly in build 187.

18.0.187 (5/16/2013)

1. NEW: The 'Output Format' settings are honored in DSP Studio when doing a handheld conversion (allows resampling (by each input sample rate), and channel up/down mixing).
2. Changed: When converting a file with a bitdepth greater than 24, the engine will convert to 24-bit (with dither) to feed the encoder (since few encoders support more than 24-bit files).
3. NEW: DSD files support conversion to a handheld (requires enabling DSP Studio for the conversion and picking a sample rate that will work like 44,100 or 48,000 Hz).
4. NEW: DSP Studio can be enabled during audio conversion (Library Tools > Convert Format), allowing resampling, channel mixing, convolution, etc.
5. NEW: When converting videos, a checkbox 'Convert video to audio' is provided so that you can extract the audio out of any videos and optionally apply any DSP (thanks to jmone for the inspiration).
6. Changed: When returning to Theater View, the file list will be refreshed instead of showing the last shown set of files (which could be stale in some cases).
7. Fixed: A rare crash when parsing certain MP4 audio files.
8. Fixed: Some clear QAM channels would not play.
9. Changed: Revamped ClearQAM tuner support.
10. Fixed: WMV encoding synchronization. Fixes Xbox 360 video playback when converting.
11. Changed: Better WMV High video encoding preset
12. New: Updated libav components.
13. Fixed: In video conversion, minor sync issues in formats other than WMV.

18.0.186 (5/16/2013)

1. Fixed: WASAPI was not working in non-exclusive mode in certain cases.
2. Changed: Revised the error messaging system for output plugins so that they never show their own errors but errors they raise can be shown by the framework (previously the error messages could cause a hang during video playback).
3. Changed: Removed the ASIO option to 'Display diagnostics when starting ASIO' because all diagnostics are written to the log file (Help > Logging).
4. NEW: Theater View television guide hides channels marked as hidden and adds a 'Favorite' view for favorite channels (requires resetting Theater View views in Options > Theater View > Reset!...).
5. Fixed: CableCARD tuners were inadvertently included in the list of analog devices during analog or STB channel scanning.
6. Changed: Updated Chinese language text file to reflect recent changes (thanks kelijun).
7. Fixed: The phrase "JRSS Subwoofer (x Hz lowpass)" in Output Format configuration could not be translated.
8. Changed: Hidden channels (hidden in Options > Television) are no longer shown in Standard View > Television or on dialogs that ask for channel selections.
9. Changed: Hidden channels won't have EPG data loaded for them so you will need to manually reload the EPG if you reshow a hidden channel (done for efficiency).

18.0.185 (5/15/2013)

1. Fixed: Video conversion could crash in some cases.
2. NEW: When scanning for CableCARD and set top box channels, the easier automatic EPG option will be offered.
3. Changed: The guide settings used in channel scanning and EPG loading will be shared.
4. Changed: TV channel scanning uses radio buttons to pick a scan type (digital, analog, CableCARD, etc.) and only does one type of scan each run. Run the scanner multiple times if you need to do more than one type.
5. Changed: When loading a television program guide, the question to 'keep' vs 'overwrite' guide identifiers will only be shown if auto-matching would actually overwrite something (normally it wouldn't, so the question was meaningless).
6. Changed: Simplified the wording on the scan for channels dialog.
7. NEW: When picking a television guide program in Theater View, the option 'Tag Channel' is offered. It allows making the channel a favorite, hiding the channel, or custom keyword tagging.
8. Changed: Switch Options > Television to use an options tree (allows scrolling with large fonts, supports search, allows nesting advanced, etc.).
9. Changed: Moved all TV tools that were under the 'TV Options...' button in Standard View > Television into Options > Television. 'TV Options...' now just shows Options > Television.
10. Changed: Added the ability to pick favorite and hidden channels in Options > Television.

18.0.184 (5/14/2013)

1. Fixed: AC3 encoding of output was not working nicely with video playback.
2. Changed: Audio Path will better show when a padded bitdepth (like 24-bit inside a 32-bit container) is in use.
3. Fixed: Bitstreaming of audio during video playback was not working in some cases.
 

Andre Marc

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JRiver does release weekly publicbuilds for the PC Version. Each build is considered stable and usually adds new features or changes the way things work based on user feedback. Only the new features are considered beta. There are also third party audio and video codecs that are updated to the latest version and foreign language updates. Sometimes the new features or changes cause a bug, sometimes OS or driver updates reveal a bug, and sometimes there is just an oversight. Most of the bug fixes are such corner cases that I have never noticed them. Between my family and I we use JRiver about 8-12 hrs a day on 3 computers. I might find about 1 actual bug every couple months.

It is a different model than any software I've ever seen. It is constantly evolving. A person can choose to use the version they download the day they purchased, but getting the weekly builds is only to one's benefit. Like JRiver says, each version is worse than the next. :) JRiver always calls its releases Beta since they contain new features that haven't yet been vetted for several weeks.

They are completely open with what they are doing. For example, here are the changes listed on their website for the past two weeks. You can see there are things being worked on the audio, video, TV, and image playback.

Wow, it is like crowd sourcing..so to speak..

I personally only update when prompted. All the micro changes, which seem to be feature based, are not really worth the effort
for me. But I think it is a good idea for others more invested to do the weekly updates.
 

still-one

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Huh? That makes utterly no sense. So Michael Fremer is not a music lover with his 20,000 Lps? Jeff Dorgay with his 9000 CDs?

I beg to differ. I have 5000 CDs, and a 1000 downloads. I mine my entire collection. I go to see live music 2x a month. Going
to see Trixie Whitley tomorrow night, then Scott Weiland next week.

My mind is boggled at your statement.

Well apparently you are easily boggled. LMAO

I too go to live concerts on a regular basis. In the last two weeks I have been to the opera, the symphony and to a Mary Chapin Carpenter Concert. Marshall Crenshaw and Brandi Carlile are in June.

No owning that amount of music doesn't make them music lovers. What good is having music you are never going to listen to again in your lifetime? You end up with rooms full of clutter, old LP's and old CD's you will never touch again.

So someone who has 9000 CD's and listens for 8 hours every day could cycle through those discs every three years or so. No thanks. I would rather have 500-1000 and of those I will only regularly listen to a couple hundred before I add and delete a bunch of them.
 

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