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Why do high up-sampling/ over-sampling rates (DSD,) kill PRAT and aliveness of music? Any ideas?
Al, If there are features in numbers even, "good" term can't be defined. "Better" term is easier. It can be defined in numbers. But again: what is "threshold of audibility"? -
main difference between real sound and repro sound
Sound is wave Not once I noticed that live sound have more "volume"/"space", than recorded one. Sound is wave. And there works wave theory. Sound waves like light (optical/electromagnetic waves). Acoustic sound is sum or acoustics rays from source (musical instrument, singer, etc.)...- Yuri Korzunov
- Post #80
- Forum: General Audio Forum
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The 24-Bit Delusion
For achieving maximal resolution used FFT window is very important. For spectrum analyzis tool recommended -200 ... -300 dB lower border for opening all adwantages of FFT 2^16. It need for analyzis of 32/64-bit float point formats. -
The 24-Bit Delusion
Ok. I agree. Multitones are cool ;) -
The 24-Bit Delusion
1. Multitone maybe have sense for a hardware devices that work in real-time. As example, for simultaneous estimation at several frequencies, measurement time economy, etc. It is a clear reasons. Same way may be used white noise for estimation of amplitude-frequency response. But using... -
The 24-Bit Delusion
Ok. You used multitone for testing. What conclusions about this test for perception you may officially claim as vendor? -
The 24-Bit Delusion
We talks about measurements. There all in numbers. Let describe "more revealing" term in numbers, please. -
The 24-Bit Delusion
Real music is stochastical process. Independent number of test sines (upper 2) we can't cover all cases. I suppose, we can't predict what percent of the cases covered by N sines even. So it lead to complicated analyzis only. Without practical sense. -
The 24-Bit Delusion
Yes. But without signal there will not noise. For checking overload ability enough take 2 sines and check full spectrum step-by-step by frequency or in sweep mode. This way slower than multitone. But it allow check overload ability for full frequency range in details. It may be automated... -
The 24-Bit Delusion
For quantization noise inside pure digital system need signal. For measurement of noise of apparatus - no. Modulation of noise is non-linear distortions. I noted above «distortions + noise floor». What is mean careful? Need exactly know that you want to get by measurement. Referring to any... -
The 24-Bit Delusion
Noise floor measured in silence mode. For single sine measured distortions + noise floor. I'd not recommend using realistic signals, including musical, because there to complex response that unseparatable with test signal. Enough use two sines and sweep sine. Anaysis should be in... -
The 24-Bit Delusion
When considered bit depth, reviewed noise floor and maximal 0 dB. But need consider 0 dB and minimal signal for given signal/noise ratio. Example: Dynamic range = 0 dB - V(dB); V(dB) is level of signal with SNR=40 dB. Because SNR for high signal is 110 dB, but for -70 db SNR about 40 dB (it... -
The 24-Bit Delusion
Except double blind hearing test. It is kind of measurement too. -
The 24-Bit Delusion
In the picture we really see measured noise level about -140 dB. If there are some doubts need exactly know settings the measurement tool. For same cases used protocols of measurements where exactly described all knobs/virtual knobs positions, modes of measured apparatus and measurement... -
The 24-Bit Delusion
In post above I corrected numbers for more right example. -
The 24-Bit Delusion
FFT is not oversampling. Band (sample rate) remains as before. Example: Power Noise 512 = 1024 W = 512 bins x 2 Watt, sample rate 44100 kHz => noise floor 2 W Power Noise 1024 = 1024 W = 1024 bins x 1 Watt, sample rate 44100 kHz => noise floor 1 W -
The 24-Bit Delusion
1. I written "for accepted method". FFT is method. It is separate thing, that may decrease measure value of noise. Example: we have 16 bit/44 kHz signal with -120 dB noise for accepted method with FFT 512 length. If we change length to 1024, measured energy noise E are kept. But the energy E... -
The 24-Bit Delusion
When considered oversampling need consider distribution same energy of noise in wider band of oversampled signal. Example: we have 16 bit/44 kHz signal with -120 dB noise (for accepted method). Energy the noise is E. If we oversample it to 16 bit/88 kHz, energy noise saved. But the energy E... -
The 24-Bit Delusion
Kostas, what is you mean as "signal-correlated noise"? Such noise may be generated during bit-depth decreasing (example: 24 to 16 bit). In DSD noise don't correlated with signal. -
The 24-Bit Delusion
Noise measurement's results depend on method. As example changing FFT length may decrease noise. Changing FFT window too. Except noise floor need look to amplitude signal and its level, because plot may be shifted. Methods, recommended by ITU, exists. I suppose, these methods used for... -
The 24-Bit Delusion
Noise floor is a middle line (math average) of noise in full band without signal. If you want calculate signal/noise ratio, you need go to energies of signal and noise. Signal energy is square (math integral) of signal bins. Noise energy is square of noise bins. Signal/noise ratio depend on... -
The 24-Bit Delusion
Hi Amir, This DAC have about -130 dB noise floor. It is very good for modern DACs. P.S. Thank you for shared measurements. -
The 24-Bit Delusion
For recording 24 bit is enough. For mastering float point is more suitable. Because integer formats too limited by math. As example, 0.1 dB gain correction. For playback dynamic range of 16 bit is calculated by 6 dB per bit. But it is not fully correct, in my opinion. Because high and low level... -
Dedicated Lines or power conditioning
Most importantly, what we talk about single thing :)- Yuri Korzunov
- Post #50
- Forum: General Audio Forum
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Dedicated Lines or power conditioning
I found English term - «Switched-mode power supply». In Russian it is "Pulse PSU". As far as I know, any kind of AC to DC PSU contains diodes for AC to DC and capacitors fixing pulses. Do you mean conversion of sine AC spectrum to half period sine’s spectrum? And that spectrum go to analog...- Yuri Korzunov
- Post #47
- Forum: General Audio Forum
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Dedicated Lines or power conditioning
I suspect, what input AC transformer of power supply unit is good low frequency filter for radio frequencies. After transformer and diodes placed condencers, that kill radio frequencies too. More significant next unit's radiation and internal power line's pulsations/noise. Pulse PSU is big...- Yuri Korzunov
- Post #43
- Forum: General Audio Forum
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Dedicated powerlines, how many?
Thank you for expalnation! :)- Yuri Korzunov
- Post #77
- Forum: General Audio Forum
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Dedicated powerlines, how many?
Hi Amir. Sorry for my English. I missed translation issues. I meant "point" as "place into electrical scheme", not "point" as "sense". AC > [amplifier or other internal DC bus] > [analog output of the amplifier ot other] I know what is sense of measurements and I like what you show these...- Yuri Korzunov
- Post #74
- Forum: General Audio Forum
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Dedicated powerlines, how many?
Hi Amir. Thank you for published information. What is point of measurement the spectrum (audio circuits, power lines into audio modules, other)?- Yuri Korzunov
- Post #67
- Forum: General Audio Forum
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Why do high up-sampling/ over-sampling rates (DSD,) kill PRAT and aliveness of music? Any ideas?
Ok. It’s method matter. In context of my personal needs, I consider all harmonics and noise together. Because I more strongly consider signal altering after passing thru my modulator, than other methodics allow to do it. I consider peak level of any component in spectrum (except base/test tone)...
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