Do Mobile Fidelity Vinyl Re-issues Have a Digital Step in the Process?

Ron Resnick · Sep 16, 2022

Jeffy said:
Have you noticed whenever the Miller (which is me) has spoken the thread dies or ends. So if anyone wants a thread to end let me know.

Perhaps nothing in your Post #960 was found to be worth responding to. Perhaps people would be more responsive if your post contained information and nuance, instead of aggressiveness and unsubstantiated assumption.

For example, why would any individual or company “trash” anybody? I don’t even know what that word means in this context.

For example, why don’t you tell us how much the absolute sound makes from Mobile Fidelity per page since you seem to be claiming that you know.

Instead of an attack, how about a well-reasoned and well-evidenced argument?

Jeffy · Sep 16, 2022

I bet more people agree with me than you. Anyone can call Absolute Sound and find out how much they charge for their full page adds. I’m not against Absolute Sound making money and I do like the magazine.

microstrip · Sep 16, 2022

Ron Resnick said:
I don’t understand why Jonathan attempts to create a balancing equation such that the apparently knowingly misleading statements by Mobile Fidelity (Jonathan: “Indeed, Mobile Fidelity‘s publicity has, I think, deliberately left the impression that everything is accomplished in the analog domain.” “Anyway you look at it, this was not full disclosure.“) somehow are offset because, or should be forgiven because, Mobile Fidelity profited from the business of re-mastering, pressing and selling LPs to consumers through the 1980s to the present day (Jonathan: “MoFi spent decades keeping the LP alive and kicking — releasing many, many sonic triumphs over that span . . . it would be worse than ungrateful of audiophiles not to show some charity here.”). I don’t think this proposed equation nets out to inculpability.

Jonathan appears not to consider that if consumers had known the truth about the digital step, then perhaps Mobile Fidelity would not have been as successful in business for decades selling its records and “keeping the LP alive.” I am not sure Jonathan should encourage Jim Davis to break his arm patting himself on the back for building a business, and even for helping to sustain an industry, based on a misrepresentation.

Is Jonathan suggesting that the end of keeping consumers buying records through the dark days of digital justified the means of the misrepresentation to sell re-issues? Numerous other companies were manufacturing and selling re-issues during the years in which Mobile Fidelity was selling its digital step vinyl records.

I see the misrepresentation issue as completely separate from the issue of “keeping the LP alive,” and as completely separate from the issue of the sound quality of Mobile Fidelity’s digital step vinyl records. I think that the former issue should not be conflated with, or means/ends justified by or excused by, either of the latter issues.

I give Jonathan credit for making the same point I made upon reading Jim Davis’ answers to Jonathan and Robert’s written questions: “If MoFi is as convinced of the sonic superiority of digital duplication and mastering as Jim Davis claims it is . . ., why conceal the fact?”

View attachment 97916

A balanced perspective of the past and current situation. Nothing can erase the past misbehavior, the industry surely tries to minimize the damages. What the high-end industry with connections to vinyl really cares is written is this (magic) paragraph of the article:

IMHO, the real looser is the audiophile who kept sealed LPs expecting them to valuate.

Audire · Sep 16, 2022

microstrip said:
A balanced perspective of the past and current situation. Nothing can erase the past misbehavior, the industry surely tries to minimize the damages. What the high-end industry with connections to vinyl really cares is written is this (magic) paragraph of the article:

View attachment 97983

IMHO, the real looser is the audiophile who kept sealed LPs expecting them to valuate.

IMO, the whole Audiophile community has suffered a great loss.

Who are we to trust if even magazines set out to defend the actions of MoFI? How are we supposed to judge the comments and articles of magazines from now on? What else are they hiding?

IMO, MoFi has done great harm in many ways to our hobby.

microstrip · Sep 16, 2022

Audire said:
IMO, the whole Audiophile community has suffered a great loss.

IMHO, only a small number of people are suffering. 99% of the audiophile community ignores it.

Audire said:
Who are we to trust if even magazines set out to defend the actions of MoFI? How are we supposed to judge the comments and articles of magazines from now on? What else are they hiding?

What are you exactly looking for? Magazines claiming for MoFi bankruptcy and promoting a big scandal?

Audire said:
IMO, MoFi has done great harm in many ways to our hobby.

OK, we all agree that it was fraudlent behavior and shoud not be forgotten. Nut great harm in many ways? I fail to see it. I think only a very few people will return their LPs.

Audire · Sep 16, 2022

microstrip said:
What are you exactly looking for? Magazines claiming for MoFi bankruptcy and promoting a big scandal?

I’m not looking for much, just truth and integrity in writing! if it’s worth saying, it’s worth getting right.

microstrip · Sep 16, 2022

Audire said:
I’m not looking for much, just truth and integrity in writing! if it’s worth saying, it’s worth getting right.

IMHO, there is truth in the quoted TAS editorial. It is only an editorial, not a deep article on the Mofi fraud.

Mike Lavigne · Sep 16, 2022

microstrip said:
IMHO, there is truth in the quoted TAS editorial. It is only an editorial, not a deep article on the Mofi fraud.

i own a dozen of the digitally sourced titles, only one One Step. i'm not a speculator at all. and while i don't like what they did on the communication side, no way to excuse it, i think the degree of angst is over blown. and i also think we will all move on. except for those who can't move on. and i respect that they can't.

i'm closer to Valin's view than not. and it's understandable that the hifi magazines would downplay it. it would be unreasonable to see the hifi press keep beating on this dead horse.

i do celebrate Chad and others who stay righteous with their process. but beating the negative drum is something i avoid like the plague.

don't buy from Music Direct if that helps you. otherwise enjoy......

Audire · Sep 16, 2022

Mike Lavigne said:
i own a dozen of the digitally sourced titles, only one One Step. i'm not a speculator at all. and while i don't like what they did on the communication side, no way to excuse it, i think the degree of angst is over blown. and i also think we will all move on. except for those who can't move on. and i respect that they can't.

i'm closer to Valin's view than not. and it's understandable that the hifi magazines would downplay it. it would be unreasonable to see the hifi press keep beating on this dead horse.

i do celebrate Chad and others who stay righteous with their process. but beating the negative drum is something i avoid like the plague.

don't buy from Music Direct if that helps you. otherwise enjoy......

Respectfully disagree.

To downplay issues doesn’t deal with them. It’s just to put one’s head in the sand and hoping they will go away. And when it happens again - because we ignored it - it dishonors the hobby IMO.

For magazines to downplay the more difficult issues makes their reporting suspect. It causes some to distrust them too.

Telling the truth about the issues isn’t beating a dead horse. It rather may help the audiophile community in pointing out what we need to do to positively change the future of vinyl, and audio in general, etc. Instead of some defending MoFI (not you Mike) and putting our heads in the sand, let’s try to learn what we as a community can do and demand so such events happen less frequently.

I‘m definitely not purchasing from MoFI or Music Direct. That’s for sure, as I can’t trust what they say!

mtemur · Sep 17, 2022

well known reviewers from various magazines just showed who’s side they actually are. mofi’s side not readers’

Ron Resnick · Sep 17, 2022

mtemur said:
well known reviewers from various magazines just showed who’s side they actually are. mofi’s side not readers’

Respectfully, I think this view is too simplistic. My main point, suggested above, is that there are separate issues here.

Robert Harley wrote: “. . . the proof of the pudding is in the tasting.” and “The MoFi albums and One-Step LPs that I own sound particularly great.” I personally don’t think this view, by itself, if true, puts Robert on “MoFi’s side not readers’.”

But I understand why you feel the way you do.

awsmone · Sep 17, 2022

Ron Resnick said:
Respectfully, I think this view is too simplistic. My main point, suggested above, is that there are separate issues here.

Robert Harley wrote: “. . . the proof of the pudding is in the tasting.” and “The MoFi albums and One-Step LPs that I own sound particularly great.” I personally don’t think this view, by itself, if true, puts Robert on “MoFi’s side not readers’.”

But I understand why you feel the way you do.

View attachment 97989

Ron seriously this is missing the whole point

no-one denies that some albums sound very good , I like digital , it can sound great

the point is they claims it was one step rather than multistep, and exclusive rather than multicopy which is what made mass copies of thriller expose the dishonesty

sound quality is a secondary issue, and they were claiming high charges for an exclusive product which it wasn’t , the Sound quality is another issue

‘’but on the SQ“ , it’s actually highly variable even from reviews before the exposition, RH massive generalisation not withstanding ; there are many other reissues of these record of better critical acclaim of these records than MoFi

this is not the first time MoFi have obfuscated the truth of their products such as their bespoke half speed mastering

Abraxas is a notable exception , not ‘proof of concept’ in my and many other opinions; RH opinion to the contrary: as an industry apologist

awsmone · Sep 17, 2022

mtemur said:
well known reviewers from various magazines just showed who’s side they actually are. mofi’s side not readers’

So we’ll said, shocked at some attitudes here to MoFi obfuscations

awsmone · Sep 17, 2022

microstrip said:
IMHO, the real looser is the audiophile who kept sealed LPs expecting them to valuate.

these are just speculators as on any investment and not important to the salient issues
they purchased an item of apparent collector value based on exclusivity which in fact didn’t exist from alleged false claims

Audire · Sep 17, 2022

Ron Resnick said:
Respectfully, I think this view is too simplistic. My main point, suggested above, is that there are separate issues here.

Robert Harley wrote: “. . . the proof of the pudding is in the tasting.” and “The MoFi albums and One-Step LPs that I own sound particularly great.” I personally don’t think this view, by itself, if true, puts Robert on “MoFi’s side not readers’.”

But I understand why you feel the way you do.

View attachment 97989

There are two types of pudding, Real and Instant. MoFI choose the instant type - Digital Vinyl Pudding. It may taste similar and some may even prefer it because they prefer artificial flavors. But it’s not the real thing! And never will be. And that is the problem. If their instant variety is so very good, then why did they choose to defraud so many by saying it’s the real thing? How they make the pudding is still important to some of us.

The article is simply diversion journalism - a further attempt to move the conversation off the real topic.

dcathro · Sep 17, 2022

Audire said:
IMO, the whole Audiophile community has suffered a great loss.

Who are we to trust if even magazines set out to defend the actions of MoFI? How are we supposed to judge the comments and articles of magazines from now on? What else are they hiding?

IMO, MoFi has done great harm in many ways to our hobby.

To be honest, I was not surprised by the MoFi revelation, nor was I particularly bothered.

MoFi is just another company trying to make money, as are the magazines.

I personally think you need to develop a healthy measure of skepticism. I developed it a long time ago

.

Audire · Sep 17, 2022

dcathro said:
To be honest, I was not surprised by the MoFi revelation, nor was I particularly bothered.

MoFi is just another company trying to make money, as are the magazines.

I personally think you need to develop a healthy measure of skepticism. I developed it a long time ago .

I have a very healthy sense of skepticism - I just hate liars!

dcathro · Sep 17, 2022

Audire said:
I have a very healthy sense of skepticism - I just hate liars!

How do you survive - everybody lies! Some of us just do it now and again.

Mike Lavigne · Sep 17, 2022

dcathro said:
To be honest, I was not surprised by the MoFi revelation, nor was I particularly bothered.

MoFi is just another company trying to make money, as are the magazines.

I personally think you need to develop a healthy measure of skepticism. I developed it a long time ago .

me neither.

4-5 years ago i had a conversation with a person involved in rights acquisition and the reissue process. while discussing that process he told me that there was some fast and loose goings on as far as reissue provenance with some players. he would not name names, and i did not press it. since then, my already healthy but now higher skepticism has caused me to be much more selective about buying the latest 'better' reissue pressing of titles i have. if the sound is not grabbing me then i don't go there. and if i already own a 45rpm version i have no interest in another one. the odds of it being enough/any better are not good.

at that time i had bought some recent MoFi 45rpm titles where i did not have those prior, but going forward bought no more.....but i had no sense that MoFi was the culprit specifically. maybe part of my lack of angst over this is that i'd already resigned myself to this kinda thing. it's part of the landscape.

years ago i did lots of comparing of tapes to the vinyl to see whether tapes were better. about a third of the time they were not. so this is a normal thing and part of the hobby.

i'm still buying new vinyl, and selective reissue vinyl. for me nothing has changed with this episode.....other than avoiding MoFi unless i don't already have a title i want, that they are offering.

Audire · Sep 17, 2022

dcathro said:
How do you survive - everybody lies! Some of us just do it now and again.

Let me know when you begin telling the truth.

Do Mobile Fidelity Vinyl Re-issues Have a Digital Step in the Process?

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