Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

austinpop · Sep 12, 2022

@Steve Williams and @oldmustang

Steve and Steve,

Since only people named Steve have early access XDMS installs, please clarify. Do you still have TAS installed so you can toggle between TAS and XDMS?

oldmustang · Sep 12, 2022

austinpop said:
@Steve Williams and @oldmustang

Steve and Steve,

Since only people named Steve have early access XDMS installs, please clarify. Do you still have TAS installed so you can toggle between TAS and XDMS?

Hi Rajiv,

I still have TAS available and Roon, too.

Steve Z

Steve Williams · Sep 12, 2022

I do as well

EuroDriver · Sep 12, 2022

austinpop said:
@Steve Williams and @oldmustang

Steve and Steve,

Since only people named Steve have early access XDMS installs, please clarify. Do you still have TAS installed so you can toggle between TAS and XDMS?

Switching between XDMS and TAS is in the Mobile App interface but not yet built out

there is no UI to switch to TAS from either the 1.0 or 2.0 App. It can be done manually through Taskmanager

EuroDriver · Sep 13, 2022

As Christiaan is rising to make his morning coffee, we have to give a Big Shoutout to Christiaan

The XDMS total UX would not be at this level without him. All phases of UI/UX design, SQ optimization and then testing, testing, testing

Christiaan, please take a bow

Christiaan Punter · Sep 13, 2022

EuroDriver said:
As Christiaan is rising to make his morning coffee, we have to give a Big Shoutout to Christiaan

The XDMS total UX would not be at this level without him. All phases of UI/UX design, SQ optimization and then testing, testing, testing

Christiaan, please take a bow

Many thanks, Edward! I am fortunate to have become part of the team during this exciting time!

Taiko Audio · Sep 13, 2022

adyc said:
Any update on network card, switch or BMS?

Not looking bad, I'm confident we'll have sourced all parts needed to have a network card and switch available to cover each Extreme owner, I don't expect everybody to purchase one but we don't want to risk leaving people wanting and without. I'm pretty confident we can ship in December.

The BMS we're working on casing options now, we have a few 2 box prototypes but we've also managed to fit everything into a single box, this is slightly larger at 483*483*185mm without footers (for reference, the current Extreme is 483*455*165mm) but otherwise will have more or less the same looks as the current Extreme, though with improved finish options. If we were to offer this option we would naturally accept a trade in of the old "chassis" which could then be stripped/refinished/repurposed.

For a 2 box version a double Extreme chassis would make sense however soaring raw material and energy prices have made this a very expensive option, in fact we will soon be forced to raise the Extreme's retail by probably as much as 25% (!).

We therefor have a secondary, cheaper to manufacture 2 chassis option we're also considering to offer, it would look somewhat like this:

Right now we're working on completing all 3 chassis options and I think the best way from there would be calculating costs and asking you, our customers, for their opinions on what makes sense and what doesn't.

jelt2359 · Sep 13, 2022

Is there also a router in the works? Or it's just network card + switch?

That case looks really good, btw. Very different look- futuristic- but I like it a lot.

Taiko Audio · Sep 13, 2022

jelt2359 said:
Is there also a router in the works? Or it's just network card + switch?

That case looks really good, btw. Very different look- futuristic- but I like it a lot.

Yes, the router design has already been completed, the first prototype PCBs are on order. The firmware is ready. I would guesstimate a march 2023 launch.

Bobvin · Sep 13, 2022

A couple decades back I wrote a spec and UI for a player app. Two years of development and it wasn’t complete when I left the company. And it was a very simple UI in many ways mimicking iTunes. I am surprised to hear the amount of coding for each “view” or “page” is greater than expected—something I might have said as a new program manager. Not what I’d have expected from team Taiko — but it is really amazing the levels of effort to get some of the simplest functionality to work, then add multiple operating systems, foundation for localization, just fitting the pieces together. Is no easy thing making an elegant and functional bit of software. Oh yes, and it must not F-up the sound!

Keep at it team Taiko — we are all pulling for you (Some more patient than others.)

Now stop with the silly “sleep” thing and get back to work!

alwayslearning · Sep 13, 2022

The reports on XDMS sonic quality from the two Steves really, really whet the appetite. Congratulations Team Taiko on achieving this most important goal (and with hints that it will only get better).

I do have a question about gapless playback. I'm guessing that I speak for a good number of Extreme owners when I say that gapless is and always has been a critically important priority for any state of the art music player. I'm surprised that the Alpha version is not quite there when it comes to gapless. Given how important this is, it suggests that you are struggling with how to achieve true gapless playback and still maintain the desired level of sonic quality. Can Christian or Ed or Emile shed any light on this issue and what we can expect in the coming months? Thank you in advance for any feedback on this issue.

Tuckia · Sep 13, 2022

How about a feature which adds the gaps from 8-track players. This is an indelible part of the songs of my youth. Perhaps a simulated “ka-chunk” along with it.

And reduce the dynamic range to .25 db and a hf roll-off above 5khz.

romaz · Sep 13, 2022

I'm now on the XDMS alpha. Much thanks to @EuroDriver for his generous time and patience with the install.

Just a few early observations.

If you're the type of person who is intolerant of bugs and instability, it might be better to wait for the beta or the final version, otherwise, you might find yourself frustrated or disappointed. This is an alpha after all and I'm not sure what type of support will be available.

Because Concert mode is less stable with this current build, Ed suggested to stick with Discovery mode where gaps are quite long. If gapless is a must have, it might be best to avoid this alpha.

I received a private comment expressing disappointment that XDMS should be much further along for a product that has been nearly 2 years in development given all the bright minds that are involved. Yes, the interface is still a work in progress but it's clear to me where all the effort has been put into and that is SQ. If there is a certain functionality missing, it's almost certainly because it was compromising SQ. With all the delays and hype, I was thinking to myself that it will be difficult to meet expectations and yet expectations have been met from my standpoint.

While this is an early alpha and Emile tells me to expect things to sound significantly better because of a recent discovery, this build is sounding very good as it is. The Steves did not exaggerate and I agree especially with what Christiaan said. XDMS has the technical precision of TAS (even better probably) but with the fluidity of Roon. There is none of TAS' dryness but also none of the bloat and smearing of Roon. PRaT is notably better with a fiercer attack and yet there is also a greater ease and more cohesive flow to the presentation compared to either TAS or Roon. You hear it instantly.

Steve Williams · Sep 13, 2022

romaz said:
I'm now on the XDMS alpha. Much thanks to @EuroDriver for his generous time and patience with the install.

Just a few early observations.

If you're the type of person who is intolerant of bugs and instability, it might be better to wait for the beta or the final version, otherwise, you might find yourself frustrated or disappointed. This is an alpha after all and I'm not sure what type of support will be available.

Because Concert mode is less stable with this current build, Ed suggested to stick with Discovery mode where gaps are quite long. If gapless is a must have, it might be best to avoid this alpha.

I received a private comment expressing disappointment that XDMS should be much further along for a product that has been nearly 2 years in development given all the bright minds that are involved. Yes, the interface is still a work in progress but it's clear to me where all the effort has been put into and that is SQ. If there is a certain functionality missing, it's almost certainly because it was compromising SQ. With all the delays and hype, I was thinking to myself that it will be difficult to meet expectations and yet expectations have been met from my standpoint.

While this is an early alpha and Emile tells me to expect things to sound significantly better because of a recent discovery, this build is sounding very good as it is. The Steves did not exaggerate and I agree especially with what Christiaan said. XDMS has the technical precision of TAS (even better probably) but with the fluidity of Roon. There is none of TAS' dryness but also none of the bloat and smearing of Roon. PRaT is notably better with a fiercer attack and yet there is also a greater ease and more cohesive flow to the presentation compared to either TAS or Roon. You hear it instantly.

You can’t unring a bell. There is so much energy in XDMS. PRaT is a reasonable definition. The attack, decay timbre tone and dynamics is superb and yes according to Emile XDMS will be even better sound wise over the next few months

rando · Sep 13, 2022

Bobvin said:
Now stop with the silly “sleep” thing and get back to work!

I'm struggling to hold back a joke about effects of C-states (Steve W.) and P-states (Portland is very much in a state of its own

).

Among seasoned company of any stripe the habitual outlook is this that or the next problem takes as long as it takes. Years behind can flop to years ahead and right back in the near term. WBF encompasses a range of pursuits this applies to.

It's all well and good to make obscene claims out of the crowd of know-it-all's. Writing a custom BIOS that boots still lies some ways off from refined solutions a manufacturer will be proud to support, and defend. At that level bringing together firmware and software without playing an international shell game of patches is tough sledding. Very little lies in this barren ground where corporations abandoned small holdings to bring everyone into their own fortresses.

EuroDriver · Sep 13, 2022

Very little lies in this barren ground where corporations abandoned small holdings to bring everyone into their own fortresses.

Can you further elaborate on this intiguing analogy ?

marty · Sep 13, 2022

Taiko Audio said:
Not looking bad, I'm confident we'll have sourced all parts needed to have a network card and switch available to cover each Extreme owner, I don't expect everybody to purchase one but we don't want to risk leaving people wanting and without. I'm pretty confident we can ship in December.

The BMS we're working on casing options now, we have a few 2 box prototypes but we've also managed to fit everything into a single box, this is slightly larger at 483*483*185mm without footers (for reference, the current Extreme is 483*455*165mm) but otherwise will have more or less the same looks as the current Extreme, though with improved finish options. If we were to offer this option we would naturally accept a trade in of the old "chassis" which could then be stripped/refinished/repurposed.

For a 2 box version a double Extreme chassis would make sense however soaring raw material and energy prices have made this a very expensive option, in fact we will soon be forced to raise the Extreme's retail by probably as much as 25% (!).

We therefor have a secondary, cheaper to manufacture 2 chassis option we're also considering to offer, it would look somewhat like this:

View attachment 97851

View attachment 97852

Right now we're working on completing all 3 chassis options and I think the best way from there would be calculating costs and asking you, our customers, for their opinions on what makes sense and what doesn't.

The question I have regarding the single chassis version is...will any human being be able to lift it onto their shelf? I had to rent a lift to get the current Extreme onto the top shelf of my rack. Seriously!!

Also, adding ~8 inches in height might make this a difficult space/rack issue for many. I know it It would literally be impossible for me so the 2 chassis option is the most attractive from my perspective.

Screen Shot 2022-09-13 at 5.36.15 PM.png

dminches · Sep 13, 2022

Should we set up a separate thread to discuss XDMS alpha?

Here's my question before people opine on that. When I click on any artist it says there are no tracks. Is that functionality not coded yet? The only way I can pick music from my library is to select an album.

EuroDriver · Sep 13, 2022

dminches said:
Here's my question before people opine on that. When I click on any artist it says there are no tracks. Is that functionality not coded yet? The only way I can pick music from my library is to select an album.

Still under construction as are Playlists

Artist search functionality in Qobuz and Tidal is there

cat6man · Sep 13, 2022

EuroDriver said:
Still under construction as are Playlists

Artist search functionality in Qobuz and Tidal is there

Alpha <<< Beta < release
That's been my experience.

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