Does anyone here have experience with acousticfields.com or with true pressure traps?

Cellcbern

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...if I was starting a project room from scratch, I would at least want to have the discussion re: non-parallel surfaces vs. right-angled design.

The open question for me: Do we build for audio at right angles because it's cheaper, or because it's better for audio?

Even *if* one found "angled" walls were technically better, budget or acceptance by non-audio audience members might still dictate a traditional build.

We're just spit-balling here, so everything is on the table, theoretically, IMO.
Haven't found a single good reason to consider angling the walls in a home listening room:

FYI: from Soundman 2020-Studio Design Forum: Superior Acoustic Assistance for Recording Studio Builders, "Myth: The Walls of a Studio Must Be Angled, Never Parallel":

https://digistar.cl/Forum/viewtopic.php?t=428
 
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GroovySauce

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My brother had 8 boxes of 703 in his music room. Each box was 4x8'x12" of 703. It was a slight improvement. He added 4 Acoustic Fields Carbon Panels and it changed the room dramatically!

I had a similar experience with Acoustic Fields foam. I had some panels made from 703 when I removed them and added the foam that Acoustic fields sells, it was a night and day difference. I'm never going back to 703. 703 kills the aliveness of music.

I recently bought a new home... My new music room is 17' 6" x 27' with a vaulted ceiling. I discussed options with Dennis and went with his solution. I'm expecting to receive the treatment in 2 months.
 
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Crossram

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Thanks MarkusBarkus. I am in the final stages of talking with a local home remodeler that has designed and built sound studios and done acoustical design and installation in churches. He clearly understands that I am not interested in building a sound studio And seems to understand the difference between a sound studio and a two channel listening room. We have discussed all aspects of this project and I am liking his ideas and encouraged by his enthusiasm for taking on the project despite my budget constraints.

He is a huge fan of non-parallel walls and sloped ceilings for dedicated audio rooms and says that he has built several with outstanding results. He also wants to eliminate all 90 degree angles at the intersection of walls, floors, and ceiling during the construction phase. The concept makes sense to me and I am inclined to go this direction but am concerned about the lack of information of completed projects or pros/cons regarding this approach.

Does anyone have any experience or advice on ways to obtain more information on this concept?
 

Cellcbern

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Cellcbern, I just saw the your last post. I will check out the link. Thanks!
No point in angling walls or eliminating 90 degree corners when all of the same benefits can be achieved with room treatments in a rectangulat room without the wasted space and other downsides.
 
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MarkusBarkus

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I'll poke around a bit, @Crossram

I recall there were some SOS articles, but it's been a while. BTW, there is a lot of debate on all sides of the discussion re: design and building for audio spaces...and 100% agree: listening room is not a recording studio.

Exciting stuff...making progress!
 

HughP3

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My brother had 8 boxes of 703 in his music room. Each box was 4x8'x12" of 703. It was a slight improvement. He added 4 Acoustic Fields Carbon Panels and it changed the room dramatically!

I had a similar experience with Acoustic Fields foam. I had some panels made from 703 when I removed them and added the foam that Acoustic fields sells, it was a night and day difference. I'm never going back to 703. 703 kills the aliveness of music.

I recently bought a new home... My new music room is 17' 6" x 27' with a vaulted ceiling. I discussed options with Dennis and went with his solution. I'm expecting to receive the treatment in 2 months.
I recently bought gik diffuser/ absorption panels to try on first reflection points. I preferred the AF foam i already had. It does not over dampen. The Gik panels however did work well in my friends room so he bought mine.
 
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Cellcbern

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I am preparing to build a two channel listening room in my basement. Planned dimensions are 17’X23’X10’. Perfect chance to get it right since it is to be built from scratch. One chance if you will.

I have some experience with velocity traps (absorption), enough to know that when using typical absorption products, it is nearly impossible to effectively address room bass nodes without creating an acoustically dead room since fiberglass and rock wool traps are exceptionally efficient at absorbing mid and high frequencies and exceptionally inefficient at absorbing low and even mid-bass frequencies.

After checking out several companies online that specialize in room treatment, Acoustic Fields (acousticfields.com) stood out to me because they design and build pressure traps that precisely target specific frequencies (vs the broad-band behavior of velocity/absorptive traps) based on mathematical modeling identifying exactly where and what frequencies of acoustic anomalies will occur in a specific room and matching frequency-specific pressure traps in the exact room locations that reduce/eliminate problem nodes at the listening position without affecting non-target frequencies as velocity/absorptive traps do.

This approach promises to get quite expensive. I am wondering if anyone here has any experience with Acoustic Fields (or installing/using pressure traps) that would provide helpful input regarding their
I'll poke around a bit, @Crossram

I recall there were some SOS articles, but it's been a while. BTW, there is a lot of debate on all sides of the discussion re: design and building for audio spaces...and 100% agree: listening room is not a recording studio.

Exciting stuff...making progress!
Acoustical principles are the same for both though desired result may be different. All acoustical anomalies whether in pro studio or home listening room are a result of reflected sound out of phase and/or time delayed with respect to direct sound.
 

Ron Resnick

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I recently bought gik diffuser/ absorption panels to try on first reflection points. I preferred the AF foam i already had. It does not over dampen.

Hi Hugh!

Purely out of curiosity, did you consider Acoustic Science Corp. panels along the way for damping first reflection points? What did you like about the Acoustic Fields foam panels?

Thank you.
 

HughP3

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Hi Hugh!

Purely out of curiosity, did you consider Acoustic Science Corp. panels along the way for damping first reflection points? What did you like about the Acoustic Fields foam panels?

Thank you.
Hi Ron!
I tried 4 Gik then 2 gik panels on each wall for first reflc. They took too much of the sparkle, the sense of space away, for me. I went with Gik due to local businesses and i really liked how their product looks. The AF foam stopped the confusion i heard when nothing was on the walls and allowed enough reverb to keep the sense of space/distance. Lee Bought my gik panels and they worked great for him. Did not look at ASC. Hope your room is not far off!!

edit: i removed 4 of the AF panels entirely. I like it, more sense of depth and sparkle of cymbals, acoustic Guitar etc
 

Ron Resnick

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Hi Ron!
I tried 4 Gik then 2 gik panels on each wall for first reflc. They took too much of the sparkle, the sense of space away, for me. I went with Gik due to local businesses and i really liked how their product looks. The AF foam stopped the confusion i heard when nothing was on the walls and allowed enough reverb to keep the sense of space/distance. Lee Bought my gik panels and they worked great for him. Did not look at ASC. Hope your room is not far off!!

edit: i removed 4 of the AF panels entirely. I like it, more sense of depth and sparkle of cymbals, acoustic Guitar etc

I understand on all points. Thank you for the speedy reply, Hugh!
 

Cellcbern

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Hi Ron!
I tried 4 Gik then 2 gik panels on each wall for first reflc. They took too much of the sparkle, the sense of space away, for me. I went with Gik due to local businesses and i really liked how their product looks. The AF foam stopped the confusion i heard when nothing was on the walls and allowed enough reverb to keep the sense of space/distance. Lee Bought my gik panels and they worked great for him. Did not look at ASC. Hope your room is not far off!!

edit: i removed 4 of the AF panels entirely. I like it, more sense of depth and sparkle of cymbals, acoustic Guitar etc
There is nothing special about the foam that AF sells. What you are describing is simply a case where the foam in the thickness used absorbed less than the fiberglass and therefore didn't deaden the room as much. It doesn't matter who the manufacturer or dealer is. Foam and fiberglass both absorb reflected sound waves to differing extents depending on their density and thickness. What sounds best can only be determined by listening no matter what kinds of measurements you do. Novices tend to do absorption only which always puts you at risk of deadening the room. Diffusion is an alternative that won't deaden the room but requires more knowledge and precision ro deploy properly (without creating other problems) and sufficient space to work well (very hard to optimize in small rooms). One alternative I've found to work well in small rooms without deadening the sound is the RPG BAD combination panel (see link below).

As I've reported previously, the "gold standard" based on my experience is the DHDI ZR Acoustics "Sample Rate" and "Hybrid" panels which in my listening room eliminated reflections without deadening the sound at all.


Note that there are "knockoffs" of the BAD panels (e.g., GIK) but I don't know that they have the computer generated optimal binary pattern of perforations like RPG.
 
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Cellcbern

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There is nothing unique about the foam that AF sells. What you are describing is simply a case where the foam in the thickness used absorbed less than the fiberglass and therefore didn't deaden the room as much. It doesn't matter who the manufacturer or dealer is. Foam and fiberglass both absorb reflected sound waves to differing extents depending on their density and thickness. What sounds best can only be determined by listening no matter what kinds of measurements you do. Novices tend to do absorption only which always puts you at risk of deadening the room. Diffusion is an alternative that won't deaden the room but requires more knowledge and precision ro deploy properly and sufficient space to work well (very hard to optimize in small rooms). One alternative I've found to work well in small rooms without deadening the sound is the RPG BAD combination panel (see link below). As I've reported, the "gold standard" based on my experience is the DHDI ZR Acoustics "Sample Rate" and "Hybrid" panels which in my listening room eliminated reflections without deadening the sound at all.


Note that there are "knockoffs" of the BAD panels (e.g., GIK) but I think they just have holes drilled in them and not the computer generated optimal binary pattern of perforations like RPG.
 

Crossram

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Hugh, you described the GIK panels you used as “diffuser/ absorption panels“, but for clarity, were the GIK panels your tried fronted with their optional membrane or wooden diffusor plates and, if so, which design were they (range limiter, scatter plate, or ?)?

 
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HughP3

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These
 

Cellcbern

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These
RPG, which invented and patented the "binary amplitude diffusor" has both flat and curved BAD panels which work very well (I use them):




The perforated GIK panels shown above appear to be a copy of the RPG BAD but I don't know if they have the same computer generated perforation pattern. The GIK panels with wood grilles would mix reflection and absorption, lessening the potential for deadening the room, but not sure they provide any actual diffusion.
 
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MarkusBarkus

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...the GIK panels noted are made from computer generated modeling. There are 1D and 2D versions. I use the 2D versions and they work well.

Actually, the GIK site has some interesting videos and room calc tools, if interested, as well as test certs for products. You can also contact them for free consultation:

I believe they have US and UK locations.
 

Cellcbern

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...the GIK panels noted are made from computer generated modeling. There are 1D and 2D versions. I use the 2D versions and they work well.

Actually, the GIK site has some interesting videos and room calc tools, if interested, as well as test certs for products. You can also contact them for free consultation:

I believe they have US and UK locations.
The perforations appear smaller, more numerous, and in a different pattern on the patented RPG BAD panels than on the "knockoff" GIK.
 

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MarkusBarkus

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...that would represent the percentage of reflection vs. absorption. Perhaps GIK engineers favor a different set of values for their product engineering. The test certs are interesting. BTW: I have no dog in this hunt. She's on the recliner, actually.

I was attempting to provide some info to @Crossram based on my experience actually building my room, building and purchasing various versions of these products, and using them here to see how they perform.

I actually think the pressure-based "traps" work the best. I loaned a few of the versions I made (based on designs developed by others) to a friend who records professionally, and he won't give them back. Just a manner of speech, but he does really like them.

Second best might be a tie between a 24" tall "superchunk" equilateral triangle of 703 FRK rigid fiberglass stacked in the corner, with a limp mass membrane on the front, and the Primacoutic tri-hedral corner traps, which are an acquired look, but seem to work very well, while taking up no usable space.

I wouldn't try to urge anyone down my specific path. This is just an investigation for a groovy project by @Crossram . I imagine he* will decide a path based on his relationship with the contractor, not on a couple of guys bantering on the internet.

* Disclaimer: Since I have never met @Crossram I am only assuming he is male. I mean no harm to the men, women and/or/may be non-binary gendered participants on this or any other forum.
 
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Cellcbern

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...that would represent the percentage of reflection vs. absorption. Perhaps GIK engineers favor a different set of values for their product engineering. The test certs are interesting. BTW: I have no dog in this hunt. She's on the recliner, actually.

I was attempting to provide some info to @Crossram based on my experience actually building my room, building and purchasing various versions of these products, and using them here to see how they perform.

I actually think the pressure-based "traps" work the best. I loaned a few of the versions I made (based on designs developed by others) to a friend who records professionally, and he won't give them back. Just a manner of speech, but he does really like them.

Second best might be a tie between a 24" tall "superchunk" equilateral triangle of 703 FRK rigid fiberglass stacked in the corner, with a limp mass membrane on the front, and the Primacoutic tri-hedral corner traps, which are an acquired look, but seem to work very well, while taking up no usable space.

I wouldn't try to urge anyone down my specific path. This is just an investigation for a groovy project by @Crossram . I imagine he* will decide a path based on his relationship with the contractor, not on a couple of guys bantering on the internet.

* Disclaimer: Since I have never met @Crossram I am only assuming he is male. I mean no harm to the men, women and/or/may be non-binary gendered participants on this or any other forum.
To the extent that his resources permit I would encourage @Crossram to experiment a little. In particular I would urge him to try comparing a couple of the ZR Acoustics panels against conventional absorbers/diffusors/combination panels behind his speakers, which is how I got started with them. He's getting a lot of advice and recommendations with regard to conventional room treatments. But it appears that despite all of the naysayers I remain the only WBF member/poster to actually deploy the ZR panels. I am aware of one other poster who bought a few to try but not enough to achieve the minimum recommended coverage or overcome challenges with windows. I find that surprising. I would have expected to see more curiosity/experimentation from this group.

This (photo below) was enough for me to know that the ZR Acoustics panels were on a whole different level:

This (see photo) was enough for me to know that I was listening
 

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