Avantgarde Horn Speakers

Blue58 · Jun 23, 2022

What have they done!!

Slapped the horns in Boxes, really, is this the best they can do? I at least expected mini-me versions of the G3 Trio.

spiritofmusic · Jun 23, 2022

I think the bigger issue AG have here is salt water damage from those crashing waves lol. Boxes or no boxes.

marslo · Jun 23, 2022

Imho opinion AG is going the risky path. They choose to make an expensive lifestyle product instead of maximazing audio qualities.

Maybe I am wrong but I am not convinced about the advantages of the amps built in the speakers, it is the same mistake like with their XA amps "breaking technology" . Not bad but more marketing than real audio properties.

I could be also wrong because I did not audition G3 series and my Trio LE 26 ( G2) might be the best AG achieved in their speaker line , at least in audiophile terms.

I hope I will have the opportunity to listen to Trio G3 in Warsaw during the next Audio Video Show ( end October ) .

I did not see enthousiastic opinions after Munich though.

nirodha · Jun 23, 2022

marslo said:
Maybe I am wrong but

I could be also wrong because I did not audition G3 series but my Trio LE 26 ( G2) might be the best AG achieved in their speaker line , at least in audiophile terms.

it would mean a lot if people stop speculating and start experiencing.

wil · Jun 23, 2022

Tirebiter said:
As to you comment concerning equipment between speakers, I have come to the conclusion that Jim's theory that the room has has a huge impact sound quality is spot on. My room is a bit of a nightmare by many standards and the reorganization helped me tremendously. Indeed, it sounds like your room is more forgiving....

I'm not sure I understand how moving your gear out from between/behind your speakers is giving you better sound propagation? You still have a large cabinet where the rack with gear used to be. Maybe the more open rack of gear was more diffuse (which is often wanted on the front wall) where the cabinet will be more reflective. It seems the ideal would be to move the speaker forward a few feet (if you have room!).

andromedaaudio · Jun 23, 2022

@ marslo ,You can switch them off and use your own amp if you want too .
Are you sure they cannot be ordered without the built in amps .
Seems to me like an easy job for them .

Hear Here · Jun 23, 2022

Blue58 said:
What have they done!!

Slapped the horns in Boxes, really, is this the best they can do? I at least expected mini-me versions of the G3 Trio.

So it appears that the new Duos have adopted the Uno style in that the mid and top drive units are both installed within the main enclosure. This reduces the brand's distinctive and somewhat quirky looks, but it probably does allow sound quality improvements, even without the new amplification technology.

The existing Duo XD has an unfortunate constructional feature in that the horns are a little higher than ideal. Setup guidelines say that the top surface of the main enclosure should just be visible from the seating position and tilting forwards may be needed to achieve this. Unfortunately, over the years since the tweeter was incorporated into the main enclosure with the mid-horn above (ie the Grosso) , the main enclosure has been lifted by the introduction of the new fancy spikes, and the new base frame and the fact that the enclosure now hovers above this frame. All these things have resulted in the increased height of the sound sources - 2-3" higher than the Grosso from which the current Duo has evolved.

I have saved some height with my own mods to the Duo XD by ditching the "scaffolding" and I'm pleased to see that AG has at last removed these upright supports from their new Duos. I look forward to listening to the new Duos, though I suspect there will be a big hike in price. Peter

Attached Images

Attach

ed Images

Attached Images

marslo · Jun 23, 2022

nirodha said:
it would mean a lot if people stop speculating and start experiencing.

That’s my plan

andromedaaudio said:
@ marslo ,You can switch them off and use your own amp if you want too .
Are you sure they cannot be ordered without the built in amps .
Seems to me like an easy job for them .

I took me over one year to break in LE 26 and integrate them with the subs and electronics.
I am 95 % happy now, especially with the sound of the analog part of my system.
Those remaining 5 % makes me try REL Carbon Special in line array to see if I can be - say - 99 % happy.
And you suggest to change the main speakers, you must kidding me

I hate changes, I love music

andromedaaudio · Jun 23, 2022

I only tried to help , lol

Blackmorec · Jun 23, 2022

Guys, here’s a recommendation

1. Read up about the latest AG technology
2. Go and listen to them in a venue that isn't completely compromised like an audio show with its overloaded and clipped mains, very high vibration levels, very high ambient noise and EMI soup
3. Post your opinions, based on what you learned and heard

Having said that, AG used to have some of the best music at the old Frankfurt shows….demos often got a round of applause.

BTW, I had a pair of Omega Trios with 4 subwoofers and a pair of Duos. Running in took about 200 hours of playing music.

marslo · Jun 23, 2022

Blackmorec said:
Guys, here’s a recommendation

1. Read up about the latest AG technology
2. Go and listen to them in a venue that isn't completely compromised like an audio show with its overloaded and clipped mains, very high vibration levels, very high ambient noise and EMI soup
3. Post your opinions, based on what you learned and heard

Having said that, AG used to have some of the best music at the old Frankfurt shows….demos often got a round of applause.

BTW, I had a pair of Omega Trios with 4 subwoofers and a pair of Duos. Running in took about 200 hours of playing music.

I am a fan of AG for some 13 years. My first pair was Duo Omega G2 , then I had Mezzo XD for 6 years and now Trio LE 26 .
I am keen to listen to the new G3 series and check for myself if it is a real leap forward.

sbnx · Jun 23, 2022

andromedaaudio said:
@ marslo ,You can switch them off and use your own amp if you want too .
Are you sure they cannot be ordered without the built in amps .
Seems to me like an easy job for them .

The G3 can be ordered without the built in amp and use a passive crossover with a teaditional amp if you want. The built in amp is a $38k option.

Tirebiter · Jun 24, 2022

wil said:
I'm not sure I understand how moving your gear out from between/behind your speakers is giving you better sound propagation? You still have a large cabinet where the rack with gear used to be. Maybe the more open rack of gear was more diffuse (which is often wanted on the front wall) where the cabinet will be more reflective. It seems the ideal would be to move the speaker forward a few feet (if you have room!).

Wil, the benefit arose more from moving vibration sensitive components from between the speakers to a sidewall than from any improvements that moving the equipment may have had on room dynamics. Now my TT, tube phono pre and tube preamp sit in a much less sonically congested zone and have responded very positively.

Yes I would have liked to leave the cabinet out of the picture but needed it for "aesthetics", ie WAF. Fortunately, it does sit behind the speakers because it is only 12" deep. Also, room restrictions prevented me from moving speakers farther out as did moving the Lamm mono blocks.

Not an ideal room by any stretch but after years of futzing around have found a very good solution to chronic sound quality issues that in the end was very simple. Like many others, I was stuck on the notion that interconnects/speaker cables HAD to be as short as possible which generally dictate centric equipment locations. I gambled on a good pair of 8.5 meter XLR cables and won...by a significant margin.

Brock

Bergm@nn · Jul 4, 2022

Basic speaker balance question - why if all settings on a pair Duo XDs are equal, and the room is reasonably symmetrical, would one speaker channel measure consistently with a basic meter , at 10 db quieter than the other channel?

Background - I've been nagged by a 'somethings not quite right' feeling with regard to my new Duos since they arrived a month or two ago. Basically through various sources I got the feeling that the overall balance and weight of sound was off centre and dragged to the left. So I plugged in a couple of different preamps just to check that that it wasn't something faulty with the inputs or attenuation etc.

I've also used a couple of different power amps, including a pair of monoblocks which I've swapped over between channels to make sure to eliminate them as the cause.

Today I've had a bit more time so using the same channel input and swapping it over from one channel on the preamp to another, I measured the sound levels coming from each speaker one at a time, using the same musical input. Consistently getting a reading 10db lower on the right hand speaker.

So I plugged in my laptop to each Duo and checked that the preset, bass volume and EQ page settings were all identical for both speakers which they were.

Am I missing something? Where do I go next?

hogen · Jul 4, 2022

marslo said:
Imho opinion AG is going the risky path. They choose to make an expensive lifestyle product instead of maximazing audio qualities.

Maybe I am wrong but I am not convinced about the advantages of the amps built in the speakers, it is the same mistake like with their XA amps "breaking technology" . Not bad but more marketing than real audio properties.

I could be also wrong because I did not audition G3 series and my Trio LE 26 ( G2) might be the best AG achieved in their speaker line , at least in audiophile terms.

I hope I will have the opportunity to listen to Trio G3 in Warsaw during the next Audio Video Show ( end October ) .

I did not see enthousiastic opinions after Munich though.

I think what I heard of the Trio G3 in München was maybe the best potential I ever heard in any system. In many ways it was the very the best in the show for me.

Jim Smith · Jul 4, 2022

Bergm@nn said:
Basic speaker balance question - why if all settings on a pair Duo XDs are equal, and the room is reasonably symmetrical, would one speaker channel measure consistently with a basic meter , at 10 db quieter than the other channel?

Background - I've been nagged by a 'somethings not quite right' feeling with regard to my new Duos since they arrived a month or two ago. Basically through various sources I got the feeling that the overall balance and weight of sound was off centre and dragged to the left. So I plugged in a couple of different preamps just to check that that it wasn't something faulty with the inputs or attenuation etc.

I've also used a couple of different power amps, including a pair of monoblocks which I've swapped over between channels to make sure to eliminate them as the cause.

Today I've had a bit more time so using the same channel input and swapping it over from one channel on the preamp to another, I measured the sound levels coming from each speaker one at a time, using the same musical input. Consistently getting a reading 10db lower on the right hand speaker.

So I plugged in my laptop to each Duo and checked that the preset, bass volume and EQ page settings were all identical for both speakers which they were.

Am I missing something? Where do I go next?

Not sure I read your actions correctly, but I would swap all interconnects & speaker cables, left for right, one pair a time.

It's probably not the cables, but it's a relatively simple test.

And I would not suggest this if not for actually finding this to be an issue once in a while...

sbnx · Jul 4, 2022

It seems that you have tried different amps and preamps. As Jim suggested you could swap cables. You could also just swap the speakers. move the left speaker to the right etc. If the problem moves to the left speaker then you know for sure it is the speaker. I believe you posed on another thread with some measurements. i don't recall but one thing to do is to check which drivers are 10dB quieter. Are all three (tweeeter, midrange and tweeter) 10dB off form the other speaker or perhaps just the midrange.

Once you can prove that it is indeed the speaker then it is probably time to contact Avantgarde.

LL21 · Jul 4, 2022

Bergm@nn said:
Basic speaker balance question - why if all settings on a pair Duo XDs are equal, and the room is reasonably symmetrical, would one speaker channel measure consistently with a basic meter , at 10 db quieter than the other channel?

Background - I've been nagged by a 'somethings not quite right' feeling with regard to my new Duos since they arrived a month or two ago. Basically through various sources I got the feeling that the overall balance and weight of sound was off centre and dragged to the left. So I plugged in a couple of different preamps just to check that that it wasn't something faulty with the inputs or attenuation etc.

I've also used a couple of different power amps, including a pair of monoblocks which I've swapped over between channels to make sure to eliminate them as the cause.

Today I've had a bit more time so using the same channel input and swapping it over from one channel on the preamp to another, I measured the sound levels coming from each speaker one at a time, using the same musical input. Consistently getting a reading 10db lower on the right hand speaker.

So I plugged in my laptop to each Duo and checked that the preset, bass volume and EQ page settings were all identical for both speakers which they were.

Am I missing something? Where do I go next?

You have switched at the preamp level into the amp. If you switch the speaker cables at the amp...then if it is the amp, then your LEFT speaker should drop by 10db.

If it remains in the RIGHT speaker, then the only other thing to check it seems is leave the speaker cables in the original set up coming out of the amp...BUT switch the speaker cables at the SPEAKER end just in case you have something crazy going on with your SC termination.

If it is STILL the RIGHT speaker softer by 10db, then sounds like it could be the speaker.

Bergm@nn · Jul 5, 2022

Jim Smith said:
Not sure I read your actions correctly, but I would swap all interconnects & speaker cables, left for right, one pair a time.

It's probably not the cables, but it's a relatively simple test.

And I would not suggest this if not for actually finding this to be an issue once in a while...

Thanks Jim. I had changed all the cables from source to pre and then pre to power, but I hadn't swapped/ changed the speaker cables which I'll do later.

sbnx said:
one thing to do is to check which drivers are 10dB quieter. Are all three (tweeeter, midrange and tweeter) 10dB off form the other speaker or perhaps just the midrange.

Yes good idea, I can then see if its not the cables then is the 10db drop coming from either the mid and tweeter horns, or the active bass unit.

Bergm@nn · Jul 5, 2022

So using a single speaker cable I went through a process of wiring up the same amp to each speaker in turn, beginning with just the mid range, and then onto the active bass unit of each.

Results - the mid range units on each speaker produced equal sound levels at a given attenuation level on the preamp. However when just connecting the bass units the right hand speaker was found to be 10db quieter than the right.

So this points to something wrong with the active bass unit on the right hand Duo. Can't see anything obvious in the settings. If I press + on the volume of the bass unit I have to go from 12 to 21.5 to get a matched output level to the left hand speaker.

Avantgarde Horn Speakers

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

VIP/Donor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

VIP/Donor

Well-Known Member

Attachments

VIP/Donor

VIP/Donor

Well-Known Member

VIP/Donor

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Well-Known Member

Industry Expert

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Member

Member

Similar threads