Koetsu

Apr 4, 2022
63
90
23
38
What a great thread. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this from the first to last page!

I'm a relative newcomer to high end analogue and admittedly a little on the novice side of cartridge/tonearm set-up. But, I'm motivated to learn the in's and out's.

I happened upon my first Koetsu (Rosewood Signature) some 2.5 years ago and have enjoyed it so much it has curious about others. Since then I have procured a Rosewood Signature Platinum and Onyx Platinum Diamond. All great in their own ways.

Now, my curiosity extends to the two in the Urushi camp (Wajima & Vermilion) and wonder if the Sugano era made units are different/better?
And which of the stone bodied carts would ultimately be 'my flavour'. After having read about the Coralstone, Blue Lace & Tiger Eye I really have no clue!
Can anyone help to shed some light here?

Thanks!
 

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
12,352
5,470
2,810
Manila, Philippines
What a great thread. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this from the first to last page!

I'm a relative newcomer to high end analogue and admittedly a little on the novice side of cartridge/tonearm set-up. But, I'm motivated to learn the in's and out's.

I happened upon my first Koetsu (Rosewood Signature) some 2.5 years ago and have enjoyed it so much it has curious about others. Since then I have procured a Rosewood Signature Platinum and Onyx Platinum Diamond. All great in their own ways.

Now, my curiosity extends to the two in the Urushi camp (Wajima & Vermilion) and wonder if the Sugano era made units are different/better?
And which of the stone bodied carts would ultimately be 'my flavour'. After having read about the Coralstone, Blue Lace & Tiger Eye I really have no clue!
Can anyone help to shed some light here?

Thanks!
Welcome to the thread and glad you liked it here.

There are a few here who could shed more light on the differences of the 3 stone bodies you mentioned. I've heard them before, but in different systems so it's pretty hard to give a good assessment as to which is doing what, but certainly, you cannot go wrong with any one of them.
 

Nemal1

Well-Known Member
Dec 9, 2018
365
215
120
61
I own a wajima, but going back to your earlier mention of Sugan-San, my late father had both the original rosewood and onyx long bodied versions (£500 and £800 respectively) which were the only 2 models available. Used on an oracle premier and sumiko “the arm” replaced with a triplanar 3. They were both far beyond the current state of the art at the time (not too much competition) but recall how musical the system was. Great memories.
 

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
12,352
5,470
2,810
Manila, Philippines
  • Like
Reactions: RickS

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
12,352
5,470
2,810
Manila, Philippines
Helped install this Coralstone Diamond for a friend. He bought it brand new from me in 2006 and was kept in storage till now when his main listening room was finally completed. Sounds magnificent out of the box!

viber_image_2022-05-04_11-05-10-385.jpg

viber_image_2022-05-04_11-05-10-484.jpg viber_image_2022-05-04_11-05-10-269.jpg
 

Lxgreen

Well-Known Member
Jul 27, 2020
82
93
85
Westlake Village, CA, USA
What a great thread. I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this from the first to last page!

I'm a relative newcomer to high end analogue and admittedly a little on the novice side of cartridge/tonearm set-up. But, I'm motivated to learn the in's and out's.

I happened upon my first Koetsu (Rosewood Signature) some 2.5 years ago and have enjoyed it so much it has curious about others. Since then I have procured a Rosewood Signature Platinum and Onyx Platinum Diamond. All great in their own ways.

Now, my curiosity extends to the two in the Urushi camp (Wajima & Vermilion) and wonder if the Sugano era made units are different/better?
And which of the stone bodied carts would ultimately be 'my flavour'. After having read about the Coralstone, Blue Lace & Tiger Eye I really have no clue!
Can anyone help to shed some light here?

Thanks!
I started with the Black and went with urushi Wajima last year. Recently broke the stylus off and rebuilt cartridge just returned so have some breakin time. My dealer, Audio-Element in Pasadena, CA told me to stick with the Wajima rather than replace the broken Wajima. His rationale was that the Wajima is excellent and going to stone body will give me a different, not necessarily better sq. I still eventually want to try stone body or maybe the rosewood signature platinum.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jadis

jadis

Well-Known Member
Apr 28, 2010
12,352
5,470
2,810
Manila, Philippines
His rationale was that the Wajima is excellent and going to stone body will give me a different, not necessarily better sq. I still eventually want to try stone body or maybe the rosewood signature platinum.
I have the exact sentiments as you. I have the Urushi Tsugaru, previously a Black and a Rosewood Signature, non platinum. Somewhere as I graze beyond the fields, I'd like a Jade. :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lxgreen and dan31

Don_Camillo

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2022
158
194
50
Vienna
tempo333.blogspot.com
2) The cartridge that might sound closest to a Koetsu if I were to guess might be Supex. Supex was the cartridge that Sugano San designed before he started Koetsu.

You´re right. Supex SD-900 Super sounds very similar to a Koetsu Black Goldline but SUPEX SD-909 is a different cup of tea

IMGP1781.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: DasguteOhr

Don_Camillo

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2022
158
194
50
Vienna
tempo333.blogspot.com
Saw a picture of a Koetsu WHITE that my Singapore distributor told me about, and I learned from the guy who posted it, that only 3 were made by Sugano San in those days. The Koetsu lore continues.

View attachment 51590
I bought one of these white body carts recently

Koetsu_1.jpg
Additionally I found another one offered with some pictures showing its original box


This box says model name is POEM. Maybe you can ask Fumihiko Sugano about more details and specs? Any other hint on specs and details would be highly appreciated too. Thanks.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RickS and jadis

Don_Camillo

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2022
158
194
50
Vienna
tempo333.blogspot.com
Saw a picture of a Koetsu WHITE that my Singapore distributor told me about, and I learned from the guy who posted it, that only 3 were made by Sugano San in those days. The Koetsu lore continues.

View attachment 51590
This originally was posted on Facebook.

Koetsu POEM on Facebook.jpg

Today I got mine and gave it a first try. I can confirm that it just sounds divine. No real comparison to a Black or Black Goldline. It plays finer, more holistic, more delicate and full-bodied. I´m fallen in love :cool:

IMGP1588 (Benutzerdefiniert).JPG

IMGP1591 (Benutzerdefiniert).JPG

With #032 it´s a quite early Sugano San made piece of heaven

IMGP1587 (Benutzerdefiniert).JPG
 

Solypsa

Well-Known Member
Jun 7, 2017
1,811
1,399
275
Seattle
www.solypsa.com
Congrats on the rare and lovely find!

@Don_Camillo You show a huge amount of gears in your signature, and clearly are a vinyl buff at highest level. Would you want to start a new thread speaking about your vinyl journey, and what system configuration you listen to mostly these days? I am sure it would be a fun read :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: wbass

Don_Camillo

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2022
158
194
50
Vienna
tempo333.blogspot.com
Congrats on the rare and lovely find!

@Don_Camillo You show a huge amount of gears in your signature, and clearly are a vinyl buff at highest level. Would you want to start a new thread speaking about your vinyl journey, and what system configuration you listen to mostly these days? I am sure it would be a fun read :)
Sorry, but no. I don´t want to play myself so deliberately in the foreground. Yes, I've come a long way with vinyl, have been doing this hobby for about 40 years or even a bit more now. I probably started like everyone else here. Then I also wanted to understand technicall dependencies and since then I've been doing it a bit differently than others, but always technically correct. This starts with the pickup load for a linear frequency response instead of cartridge auditions to meet my individual taste and does not stop with measuring and DIY.
 

Don_Camillo

Well-Known Member
Jun 26, 2022
158
194
50
Vienna
tempo333.blogspot.com
Unfortunately I do not own a P-10 or P-3a but a PL-70LII and a PL-50LII only. The picture shows a Denon DP-6000 in DK-200 plinth paired with a Fidelity Research FR-64s, SUT used in this setup is a Cotter/ Verion MK 1 but I also own a DP-80 as well as a DP-7000. The DP-6000 motor unit is almost in any perspective on par with the other Denons.
 

MRJAZZ

Industry Expert
Jan 20, 2014
403
206
350
Unfortunately I do not own a P-10 or P-3a but a PL-70LII and a PL-50LII only. The picture shows a Denon DP-6000 in DK-200 plinth paired with a Fidelity Research FR-64s, SUT used in this setup is a Cotter/ Verion MK 1 but I also own a DP-80 as well as a DP-7000. The DP-6000 motor unit is almost in any perspective on par with the other Denons.
Do you have any experience with a Pioneer Exclusive P10. If so, any sense how they might compare to other DD tables of that era (Denon DP 80, Technics Sp10, etc.)
 

mountainjoe

Industry Expert
Mar 25, 2015
168
74
260
Bay Area, California
eigenaudio.com
Do you have any experience with a Pioneer Exclusive P10. If so, any sense how they might compare to other DD tables of that era (Denon DP 80, Technics Sp10, etc.)
I have a P10 Exclusive and also an SP10MK3 (with an Artisan Fidelity plinth) - the P10 is overall a very nice sounding TT imo. Does everything quite well though not as resolving as the SP10MK3 and not as much extension in the bass. F52AF7A4-3661-487C-98F4-932E682041E4.jpeg

Hard to make a direct comparison as I have different tonearms and carts on each table. For the money though, I think the P10 is an excellent value. I would like to also get a P3 or P3a one of these days as they should be very competitive with the SP10MK3.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Don_Camillo

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing