I'm moving the volume talk that was derailing the Magico thread here.
Good for you. After attempting to derail a number of other threads, it seems you're learning to become more respectful.
My experience is that there is not a particular "ideal" volume for listening.
That's your limited experience but that's not necessarily other's limited experience.
A low volume and high volume level can give equally rewarding experiences.
Please explain. Or at least provide some examples.
Some systems perform better than others at low volumes and at high volumes,
This can be taken several ways. For example. One could interpret that you're saying, "Some systems perform better than others." And though that would obviously be true, I have some doubt that your intention was to state the obvious. Please explain.
so given the system and the room, there is a given range that works.
Do you know this from firsthand experience? Please explain.
When the discussions turn to db levels, the discussion becomes pretty meaningless unless there is a reference regarding the SPL meter used. Also, the db range needs to be cited, as well as whether measuring at dbA or dbC.
You mean there are standards or are you trying to introduce standards?
Saying "I like to listen at 75 db or 100 db" is completely meaningless unless you happen to be listening to something with no dynamic range. I use an iPhone with the "DB Meter" app.
So scientific. But what if he was speaking about peak ranges and you just assumed he was speaking of average db? Or are you assuming nobody's playback system has dynamic range worth noting?
My room is large 15x45'. I listen typically around a 75 avg with peaks in the 90's. Sometimes I'll listen as low as an average in the 60's.
Ok, so you find volume levels approaching elevator music levels exhilerating. Are you trying to convince others this is acceptable or a desireable goal to pursue? There are some-to-many (I venture most) systems that fall apart at higher volume levels. Which is to say the higher volume distortions associated with such systems make listening intolerable. Might your system be among those and this is your attempt to justify lower listening levels?
One of high-end audio's many preconceived narratives is that sonic nirvana or "you are there" or the ultimate fidelity can be achieved at lower volume levels and fidelity only suffers at higher volume levels. To the best of my knowledge, there's little/no truth in that. Higher volume levels simply amplify the distortions/imperfects that are present at ALL volume levels while they are simply more subdued at lower listening levels. IOW, the distortions / imperfections and what they do to the audible music for the most part remain a constant regardless of volume levels but obviously are more tolerable at lower volume levels. And with such distortions / imperfections you have every right to protect your sensitive ears when listening at louder listening levels because more than anything it's the loudness of these distortions / imperfections that cause breakup/flattening out ear bleeding or ear fatigue.
Think of your playback presentation being observed under a microscope. The higher the magnificaiton, the easier these distortions can be seen and yet at the same time become more difficult on the eye. The point being is, regardless of magnification, the distortions / imperfections remain unchanged. This I suspect is why so many have trained themselves to become satisfied and even proudful of listening at lower volume levels.
Nevertheless, it sounds like you're trying to persuade others that no sonic characteristics diminish or are lost as the volume goes down from live music volume levels toward elevator music volume levels. I'm guessing that's a hard sell for some of us because that ought to be nothing short of a miracle. Here's a little test for yourself.
Disclaimer - this little piece is probably peaking around 103 db in-room.
Start off listening at full volume and then gradually lower the volume and determine for yourself if/when sonic characteristics diminish or disappear.
Sometimes I'll really crank it up to higher levels with peaks above 100db particularly if I'm near the 30-40' depth of the room which creates an experience where the room is more "involved."
Like when you feelin' jiggy? Wait a minute. Above you said you listen at 75 db avg with peaks in the 90's. This implies when you're feelin' jiggy, your listening at maybe 85 db avg to have peaks in the low 100 db range. 85 db avg is feelin' jiggy? But that's when you're at the back of the 45ft room with ear proctection, right?
This can create a more live performance facsimile ...
Are you speaking from firsthand experience when making this claim? Also, it would help if you clarified. Is the "more live performance facsimilie" as you put it truly a "they are here" perspective as you seem to think or is it really a "you are there" perspective as others know it to be? This is a rather important question because otherwise we're just talking apples and oranges.
... which can promote the illusion of “they are here.”
Don't many-to-most out-of-the-box systems already generate some type of "they are here" presentation? I thought one of high-end audio's goals was to work the system at least to the point where the presentation gives some hint of the "you are there" perspective?
@Cableman brought up something called RRV. I'm guessing it stands for Room Reference Volume? I've asked the question, which has so far gone un-answered, as to how there can be a room reference volume which doesn't vary by recoding?
Sorry but I'm just not seeing much of any value in your stated positions. Especially since there seems to be little truth in your claims.
Why not demonstrate first your playback system's capabilities at both high and low volume listening levels so we can get a better idea where you're coming from?
