Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

Steve Williams · Oct 9, 2021

cmarin said:
On the advise of Steve Williams, I purchased four CS2 1.5 footers about six weeks ago. The CS2 footers sit under my Extreme which sits on a single Daiza platform.

Steve was kind enough to provide some pointers on the installation of the CS2s. After having read the CS2 thread, I steadied myself for what I expected would be a long and tortuous break-in period.

Surprisingly, a not insignificant positive effect became evident the first day. Within a few hours of installation it was very clear that there was a palatable reduction in the noise floor and greeter bass impact. And while there were some days when there was a retreat in performance during system warmup, they were short lived. In general, I experienced a fairly continuous positive incremental improvement over the next few weeks as the footers settled in.

I’m currently listening to my system, and the effect of lowering the noise floor by adding the four CS2s on top of the Daizas is nothing short of revelatory. And that’s on top of a system performance led by the Taiko Extreme that was already extremely (pun intended) engaging.

Next step is to add another Daiza under the CS2s. We shall see.

I appreciate your review as it now becomes safe to say that CS footers on the Daiza is a strong gain. I find it interesting that your settle in was short. Mine has always been shorter than most and I always attributed this to the feet being on CMS platforms. I know your exuberance that the sound floor literally disappears. The 1.5’s under the Extreme is very special so to say it’s even better on the Daiza is great news for many reading this

If any are interested I have 5 new sets of CS2M 1.5’s. They are special under the Extreme but I’m very biased

Rhapsody · Oct 10, 2021

Steve Williams said:
I appreciate your review as it now becomes safe to say that CS footers on the Daiza is a strong gain. I find it interesting that your settle in was short. Mine has always been shorter than most and I always attributed this to the feet being on CMS platforms. I know your exuberance that the sound floor literally disappears. The 1.5’s under the Extreme is very special so to say it’s even better on the Daiza is great news for many reading this

If any are interested I have 5 new sets of CS2M 1.5’s. They are special under the Extreme but I’m very biased

I have 17 Diaza platforms with CMS 1.5s under most of the gear that sits on the Diazas. Nothing but bliss and definitely no incompatibilities between the CMS and Diazo platforms.

wil · Oct 10, 2021

Mike Lavigne said:
saying that the Daiza is 'resting' on metal feet is not quite right. more accurate would be there is a small hollow panzerholtz end cap which are the actual footers.

View attachment 82648

there is a thin metal (copper? bronze?) 3" round disc involved, but only as a compression interface. the footers are a "system". there are 3" dense foam inserts into round cavities in the bottom side of the Panzerholtz shelf. then you have these round (copper/bronze) dics exactly the same size as these cavities and foam discs; these discs are screwed to hollow panzerholtz end caps; which are filled with foam. it's the thin edges of these panzerholtz end caps which touches the rack shelf or floor below, the foam inside the end caps absorb resonance, and the copper discs compress the 3" foam and also attenuate resonance, then there is the whole Daiza shelf itself with it's spiral pattern attenuating resonance.

your gear ideally is either sitting directly on the top of the Daiza shelf without stock footers, or naked (without the copper discs--or with them if you prefer) foam filled end caps serve as the gear/Daiza interface. for this part i prefer the naked little foam filled end caps.....which is a relatively solid hard (neutral sounding) footer by itself.

no wrong answers......only what happens to work best.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. And it slipped my mind that the metal discs have the little panzerholtz feet!

I wonder how the CS footers would perform if the foam was removed above the metal discs on the Daiza— thus removing any spring or compliance from the Daiza.

Mike Lavigne · Oct 10, 2021

wil said:
Thanks for the detailed explanation. And it slipped my mind that the metal discs have the little panzerholtz feet!

I wonder how the CS footers would perform if the foam was removed above the metal discs on the Daiza— thus removing any spring or compliance from the Daiza.

in some ways you can blame me for the Daiza. Ed Hsu visited me in 2016 to demo the SGM 2015 server in my system. he then returned 3 months later and during these sessions he became interested in my system and the effect of my active isolation devices (when we tried it under some dacs.....Ed got pretty excited), the Herzan (Table Stable in Europe). he communicated this to Emile and they investigated these devices (i was amazed at the depth of their work), at first integrating them into racks, both as bases for a rack, and under gear, seeing the weaknesses of the active devices in their power supplies and higher frequency resonance attenuation; eventually designing the Tana system as a complete package. in their research, they started experimenting with various materials including wood materials and tried panzerholtz. the Daiza was originally a part of the Tana system. but then they realized that it stood on it's own as a product, and they then took it further........the Tana system being too extreme (large $$$'s) to continue with.

i had various versions of the Daiza over this time, as their work progressed. the foam changed. originally the little panzerholtz caps were solid panzerholtz.....i still have some of those. the copper/bronze disc changed. i'm sure i only know about the tip of the research iceberg.

getting back to your question, the Tana system has a Daiza on top as part of it; without the foam or footers. and where i have a Daiza on carpet; i use sharp pointed solid tip toes instead of the foam/discs/footers. it seems a little better but that varies with the type of carpet. in my room i have heavy shag so it compromises the Daiza footer system quite a bit.

5 of my 22 Daiza's are on top of my Herzan's (without foam but with a thin rubber membrane) as part of my 5 Tana active systems. another 5 are under my Tana power supplies; these have the foam and the footers.

JanneW · Oct 11, 2021

If I want to remove the Taiko Beta app completely from the Extreme server, so that it always starts with the Roon server and nothing else, how do I do that? Even if the Taiko app sounds better, it is a dissaster to use…

Taiko Audio · Oct 11, 2021

JanneW said:
If I want to remove the Taiko Beta app completely from the Extreme server, so that it always starts with the Roon server and nothing else, how do I do that? Even if the Taiko app sounds better, it is a dissaster to use…

e-mail support@taikoaudio.com.

Taiko Audio · Oct 11, 2021

Mike Lavigne said:
in some ways you can blame me for the Daiza.

You are 100% responsible for its existence

Mike Lavigne said:
i had various versions of the Daiza over this time, as their work progressed. the foam changed. originally the little panzerholtz caps were solid panzerholtz.....i still have some of those. the copper/bronze disc changed. i'm sure i only know about the tip of the research iceberg.

"Micro oscillations" between surfaces are real. Even very heavy equipment "dances" around on its support on a nanometre scale and this turned out to be audible to a surprising extent. Materials deform and nanometre sized air pockets can create oscillations which can even feedback in active isolation sensors causing errors. Band-Aids are minimizing the surface contact area (using spikes for example) or using a compliant interface compound with high internal damping (like rubber). The latter introduces a mass-spring variable with a resonance peak (amplification at resonance and attenuation above that) which can therefor never be considered "neutral". Hence the evolution of the Daiza footers with a combination of minimal surface contact area and damping without introducing a variable mass-spring mechanism.

Taiko Audio · Oct 11, 2021

MarkusBarkus said:
...I seem to recall reading the issue was one of Panzerholtz availabilty from the source, rather than "business" at the home office.

Availability was poor, and it has become even worse, each batch is made to order and takes months. We have recently made a few changes in that we now only supply one size, 483*450 (extreme size) to minimize material waste and we've had to increase the price. There may be a next measure on the horizon where we will only supply them to existing customers owning an Extreme.

Taiko Audio · Oct 11, 2021

Steve Williams said:
The 1.5’s under the Extreme is very special so to say it’s even better on the Daiza is great news for many reading this

Indeed, I've been looking for reliable feedback from multiple sources on the combination for a long time and here it is!

Steve Williams · Oct 11, 2021

Taiko Audio said:
Indeed, I've been looking for reliable feedback from multiple sources on the combination for a long time and here it is!

It's as if the flood gates have opened since yesterday's posts as I have been inundated with new orders for existing Extreme owners who also use Daiza platforms so I am expecting there will be a lot more feedback on the combination

Taiko Audio · Oct 12, 2021

The Extreme was reviewed by Alan Sircom in issue #199 of the Hi-Fi+ magazine.

The Taiko Audio SGM Extreme is a musical revelation. It might be big,
heavy, expensive, and uncompromising, but it also shows you exactly what
is possible from a music server. Yes, it’s the server that could finally silence
the ‘yeah… but I still prefer CD’ stick-in-the-muds, but more important still, it
pushes far past the limits of what digital audio can do. The best don’t come
cheap… but if you want the best in digital audio, this is it right now!

For those interested the full review can be read on our website here: Hi-Fi+ Equipment review: Taiko Audio SGM Extreme music server, by Alan Sircom

ctydwn · Oct 12, 2021

Taiko Audio said:
The Extreme was reviewed by Alan Sircom in issue #199 of the Hi-Fi+ magazine.

For those interested the full review can be read on our website here: Hi-Fi+ Equipment review: Taiko Audio SGM Extreme music server, by Alan Sircom

Bravo Emile and Taiko team! All well deserved accolades and nice description of the Extreme's physical and sonic attributes. And we know it can only get better!

Steve Williams · Oct 12, 2021

Taiko Audio said:
The Extreme was reviewed by Alan Sircom in issue #199 of the Hi-Fi+ magazine.

For those interested the full review can be read on our website here: Hi-Fi+ Equipment review: Taiko Audio SGM Extreme music server, by Alan Sircom

Kudos Emile to you and your team

Well deserved IMO

MarkusBarkus · Oct 12, 2021

...that's a nice review! But honestly, every time I see photos of the inside of the Extreme I long for a transparent cover. Or one of those ceramic-infused panels where you flip a switch and it becomes see through.

I really want to see the heart and soul all the time. It's so well sorted out it's art. Freakin' beautiful. Love it. Sweetie is OK with that, as it's that special, geeky audio love...

2ndLiner · Oct 12, 2021

Congratulations on the well deserved review, Taiko Team! One cool thing about the review is its truthfulness, sans hype, when speaking about what the Extreme delivers. We who are fortunate enough to have an Extreme in our system simply smile and nod our heads...

oldmustang · Oct 12, 2021

MarkusBarkus said:
...that's a nice review! But honestly, every time I see photos of the inside of the Extreme I long for a transparent cover. Or one of those ceramic-infused panels where you flip a switch and it becomes see through.

I really want to see the heart and soul all the time. It's so well sorted out it's art. Freakin' beautiful. Love it. Sweetie is OK with that, as it's that special, geeky audio love...

I agree, the Extreme is industrial art of the highest sort. It's a shame it's hidden most of the time. Maybe I could blow up some of the professional photos from the website and frame them in the listening room.

And speaking of lids I recall, or at least I think I recall you mentioning that the bolt torque value for the cover is important. Since I've had my cover off for installing the USB card and snugged up the bolts by hand when I put the cover back on, could you share what the range of appropriate torque values is?

Thanks! And congratulations on the stellar review.

Steve Z

Kingsrule · Oct 12, 2021

Interesting comment on the cover bolt torque
My Extreme doesn't sit flat, never has since I received it.
And I too have had the cover off several times.
Can't use CMS footers because they require 4. (Yes they include spacers but that's not a solution IMO)
So I wonder if some reassembly of the top and bottom covers will get it square?

austinpop · Oct 12, 2021

Excellent review, and well deserved. Kudos, Emile and team!

Taiko Audio · Oct 12, 2021

oldmustang said:
could you share what the range of appropriate torque values is?

10 Nm.

Taiko Audio · Oct 12, 2021

Kingsrule said:
Interesting comment on the cover bolt torque
My Extreme doesn't sit flat, never has since I received it.
And I too have had the cover off several times.
Can't use CMS footers because they require 4. (Yes they include spacers but that's not a solution IMO)
So I wonder if some reassembly of the top and bottom covers will get it square?

That is odd, I’ll e-mail you, might indeed be a side effect of the different expansion rates of copper and aluminum.

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