New Wadax Atlantis Reference Dac

caesar said:

Many dumb and arrogant Neil Grobbers / "audio journalists", and in fairness, many "experienced" audiophiles, as well, fall into the trap of "Naïve Realism".

Naive realism is the concept where people hold illusions that their own brain leads them to believe the audio sound and their preference reflect the actual reality, while everyone else who holds other sonic preferences or perceives things differently are biased, distorted, wrong, ignorant, uneducated, unreasonable, evil, and wrong.

This leads to most arguments in this hobby, including this thread, and makes the hobby so disgusting: "My taste or preference is right and you are wrong." This sentiment is so powerful, two of the top reviewers in this hobby , "Great" Peter Breuninger and "the Yoda" Jon Valin were willing to fight at the Axpona show about the best turntable.

My hope is that some of these definitions and explanations of how people may perceive, interpret, and define things differently and completely "wrong" from someone else, can lead to a better discussion of comparative experiences and help individuals decide if they want to take the time and money to travel to hear this product. In a nutshell: have some humility about your proclamations, guys!

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Should I know who Neil Grobbers is?

Scaena1 said:

Circumventing the discussion over the language used in the review, I’ll merely say the writers linguistic descriptions need some polishing (he is no HP), but I suspect his listening skills do not. Focusing on the WADAX DAC instead, I have heard it in a system in which I was relatively familiar and to my ear, it significantly bested the excellent CH Precision multi-box system that preceded it in that system. To my ear, it is the best digital I have heard in any system that is NOT our company reference system, having not heard all DAC’s, but having heard the MSB Select and Berkeley Alpha Reference, two contenders for SOTA, in several other systems. Our current reference of the dCS Vivaldi 4 box stack with the very important Mutec Ref 10Mhz clock added, is still the best digital I have heard, primarily because it is in our reference system that has been tailored to our sonic preferences and it always acquits itself admirably on the things WE value most (and other listeners may not). However, the presence of the WADAX in a system that I was familiar with significantly raised the performance of that system, exhibited for the first time in that system many of the things we value , piqued my interest to audition it and raised the possibility that the WADAX may reign supreme in many systems.

The point of all this is to say if you are in the market and can afford such a product, it is worthy of consideration and DO AUDITION IT IF YOU CAN.


Alan Eichenbaum
SCAENA Loudspeakers

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Very interesting to read. Thank you for taking the time to write. Look forward to hearing if you ever have the Wadax in your own reference system. As one of your 'tools' for designing/production, I would be curious to know if the Wadax proves to be an even better reference than the legendary Vivaldi 4-stack (I have heard it but not with the Mutec you reference).

thedudeabides said:

Interesting how folks criticize a reviewer. Happens all the time and certainly that is their perogative. However, we all know reviews are subjective just like the rest of this hobby. I wonder how many of those criticizing a review have tried to write one and have it printed in a major audio publication. If they did, they might better understand the inherent difficulty in reviewing products and pleasing all readers. IMHO, Roy Gregory is one on the best reviewers i know of. Another is MF.

As for those that don't like a particular reviewer, the solution is simple. Don't read the review.

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Well actually, I did have several articles published (years ago) in HiFi Critic, and have worked as a professional writer.

My favourite reviewer has always been Martin Colloms, who structures a review in such a way that it is relatively easy to extract the information that you want.

I do like Michael Fremer's reviews because I always get the feeling that he is being genuine, and he also gets his message across in a clear and concise way.

I was an early subscriber to Roy Gregory's Hifi Plus in the late 90's and did not mind his reviews. However, in recent years, I find him like so many reviewers to be over verbose, rambling and long winded.

I have to admit that I have become some what cynical about the hobby, with reviewers having to invent new prose for ever more expensive audio jewellery.

caesar said:

And for full transparency about reviewer incentives, did any of the reviewers get paid to the reviews? Get free trips to hear it? Or just get long term loans of the DAC

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Typically a reviewer will sell his work to the publisher because the publisher wants sole rights.

What's in your system, caeser?

tima said:

Typically a reviewer will sell his work to the publisher because the publisher wants sole rights.

What's in your system, caeser?

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I have 4, to get different emotional takes on the music, including a bi-amped MBL 101 system with a tubed CAT preamp for extra emotion, Soundlab VTL , Zu with Audion Golden Night 300B , smaller B&W 2 way system. I'd also get a horn system, like Avantgarde, or something like that, if I had an extra free room in my house... I have been temped to take over one of my wife's rooms... move all her sh!t to the side , etc..., but if I got more audio equipment, she'd come at me with a sharpened butcher knife

dcathro said:

Well actually, I did have several articles published (years ago) in HiFi Critic, and have worked as a professional writer.

I have to admit that I have become some what cynical about the hobby, with reviewers having to invent new prose for ever more expensive audio jewellery.

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Thanks for the clarification and I believe we all become cynical about reviews (and most reviewers) the longer we are in this hobby.

dcathro said:

Well actually, I did have several articles published (years ago) in HiFi Critic, and have worked as a professional writer.

My favourite reviewer has always been Martin Colloms, who structures a review in such a way that it is relatively easy to extract the information that you want.

I do like Michael Fremer's reviews because I always get the feeling that he is being genuine, and he also gets his message across in a clear and concise way.

I was an early subscriber to Roy Gregory's Hifi Plus in the late 90's and did not mind his reviews. However, in recent years, I find him like so many reviewers to be over verbose, rambling and long winded.

I have to admit that I have become some what cynical about the hobby, with reviewers having to invent new prose for ever more expensive audio jewellery.

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As a former reviewer myself (Positive Feedback) I too always appreciated Martin Colloms reviews...he knows how to get to the point while keeping interest. Roy just drives me nuts to read as does Srajan from 6moons. Fremer I am not sure about... he seems genuine an yet some of his conclusions seem contradictory...especially with tube gear reviews.

caesar said:

I have been temped to take over one of my wife's rooms... move all her sh!t to the side , etc..., but if I got more audio equipment, she'd come at me with a sharpened butcher knife

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You'll know she's really po'd when the knife is dull.

Thanks for the systems list - that's a lot of gear.

Now with psychology out of the way, let's talk some economics :

- From a product stand point, has anyone been able to explain in non-technical , marketing language why this DAC is different/ better than FPGA dcs, top ladder dacs like TotalDAC, msb, top tube dacs like Lampizator and Jadis? Why don't you read their website and design and technology statements?

- From a price point, this DAC is $140K or something like that. Why is this DAC priced at $140K ? obviously it's irrational to price luxury price low as no one will take them seriously. Why not price at $175K if it's truly "transformational"? MSB , which has been recently loved by Yoda Valin (Soulution is best now?) and given product of the year is only $135K. ... And if a guy just bought MSB and has to sell it for roughly 50 percent off, what does he get extra for spending that $70K? The DAC is 145,000 and what does that have to do with anything other than


- I discussed the influence of Neil Grobbers / "audio journalists" before, but again, people look to authority figures in a state of confusion due to overwhelming choice ... dCS and MSB have had a huge reviewer blitz with their DAcs. Wilson guys live dcs. Magico guys love MSB for its musicality.... But most reviewers just follow the herd , which further helps entrench the more successful brands.... Neil Grobbers recently claimed that dcs bartok is better than vinyl.. nauseationg and disgusting....

- why is the US distributor so mediocre? it's the big, big lady from Canada , the one with the charming personality. Avantgarde recently tried to dump her... if this dacis so great, why isn't there a top notch distributor , like Philip O'Hanlon, dealing with this?

- And how many dealers carry this product? What else do they carry? What brand do they favor/ feature in their top systems? Doesn't seem like MSB and dCS dealers are touching this, understandably. But these are the brands that have benefited from bandwagon effects.

- How many rooms at shows will have this DAC? and will anyone be able to differentiate the sound of the dac from the overall system if they get to hear it at a show?

Luxury and entertainment industries are bound to bandwagon effects... The bandwagon effect is where popular brands become even more popular as people gain knowledge of them from their friends, experienced influencers, dealers, online boards, show reports , “audio journalists “, etc. What this means is that people’s tastes converge on select few brands rather than be dispersed across the assortment of available offerings. We see this with popular music and movies all the time, and here we see MSB, dCS, TotalDac, and Lampizator as passionately discussed by the fans and owners and getting the sales in this upper price bracket (social proof influence force acting on us). There may be many excellent products out there, including this one, but they just don't get the oxygen. And even less, thanks to the disgusting marketing of this product so far.

Sincere good luck to the dealers carrying it, as only guys with knowledge of the hobby will get to hear it.

I could go on and on...

caesar said:

Now with psychology out of the way, let's talk some economics :

- From a product stand point, has anyone been able to explain in non-technical , marketing language why this DAC is different/ better than FPGA dcs, top ladder dacs like TotalDAC, msb, top tube dacs like Lampizator and Jadis?

- From a price point, this DAC is $140K or something like that. Why is this DAC priced at $140K ? obviously it's irrational to price luxury price low as no one will take them seriously. Why not price at $175K if it's truly "transformational"? MSB , which has been recently loved by Yoda Valin (Soulution is best now?) and given product of the year is only $135K. ... And if a guy just bought MSB and has to sell it for roughly 50 percent off, what does he get extra for spending that $70K?


- I discussed the influence of Neil Grobbers / "audio journalists" before, but again, people look to authority figures in a state of confusion due to overwhelming choice ... dCS and MSB have had a huge reviewer blitz with their DAcs. Wilson guys live dcs. Magico guys love MSB for its musicality.... But most reviewers just follow the herd , which further helps entrench the more successful brands.... Neil Grobbers recently claimed that dcs bartok is better than vinyl.. nauseationg and disgusting....

- why is the US distributor so mediocre? it's the big, big lady from Canada , the one with the charming personality. Avantgarde recently tried to dump her... if this dacis so great, why isn't there a top notch distributor , like Philip O'Hanlon, dealing with this?

- And how many dealers carry this product? What else do they carry? What brand do they favor/ feature in their top systems? Doesn't seem like MSB and dCS dealers are touching this, understandably. But these are the brands that have benefited from bandwagon effects.

- How many rooms at shows will have this DAC? and will anyone be able to differentiate the sound of the dac from the overall system if they get to hear it at a show?

Luxury and entertainment industries are bound to bandwagon effects... The bandwagon effect is where popular brands become even more popular as people gain knowledge of them from their friends, experienced influencers, dealers, online boards, show reports , “audio journalists “, etc. What this means is that people’s tastes converge on select few brands rather than be dispersed across the assortment of available offerings. We see this with popular music and movies all the time, and here we see MSB, dCS, TotalDac, and Lampizator as passionately discussed by the fans and owners and getting the sales in this upper price bracket (social proof influence force acting on us). There may be many excellent products out there, including this one, but they just don't get the oxygen. And even less, thanks to the disgusting marketing of this product so far.

Sincere good luck to the dealers carrying it, as only guys with knowledge of the hobby will get to hear it.

I could go on and on...

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And you always do go and on and on...with your theories and assorted nonsense. First the DAC is 145,000 US dollars. Their is no distributor in the U.S. it is imported and sold directly by Wadax. Three reviewers wrote and tried to describe what they heard and experienced and you of course know better, you who have not even heard the item. The DAC that Valin wrote about is not the top of the line MSB - just the facts boys and he is not even a digital guy and hasn't heard any of the contenders. By the way you are now an expert on distributors as well?
What you don't know about the business of audio and distribution is everything. I believer there are now at least 5 dealers for the Wadax Reference line. What other dealers carry is not now nor ever has been a recognition of anything other than what they have and what they are able to buy and support. It is very hard today for new products to get representation based on dollars and space. Most dealers are not able to carry multiple very expensive competing items.. PERIOD it is the same reasoning that Mercedes and BMW for example are no longer sold in the same dealerships. Its bad business.
For you information I will be showing the DAC and Server at three major US shows this fall ( if they take place) RMAF, Axpona 2021 and CapFest. They will be shown with Göbel Divin Marquis speakers and cables, CH Electronics ( at RMAF) Kronos Discovery TT at Axpona and perhaps some other assorted items over the three different shows. I will reveal what I am using as we get closer to show time.
I stick to my thoughts about this DAC and its sound. The thing is Caesar I have it , listen to it and have heard many others, I don't make up the conspiracies that you do to discredit something that you know nothing about. I learned this industry from some of the best and AB stuff is not the only way to listen , its just what you expect and discredit anything that isn't done to appease your viewpoint.

morricab said:

As a former reviewer myself (Positive Feedback) I too always appreciated Martin Colloms reviews...he knows how to get to the point while keeping interest. Roy just drives me nuts to read as does Srajan from 6moons. Fremer I am not sure about... he seems genuine an yet some of his conclusions seem contradictory...especially with tube gear reviews.

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I don't see Gregory and 6moons as remotely similar. I've only read a couple of Gregory's reviews, but I thought they were well written and with meaningful content. Srajan, however is in his own very special universe. Yes, there is content, but to sift it out of his awkward, disorganized and painfully obtuse prose is a real chore.

Stereophonic said:

A lovely system with same speakers than mine…. View attachment 81226

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Looks stunning I bet it sounds it to.

Stereophonic said:

I bet the sun is yellow…
the sea is blue…
the grass is green…
and maybe one day…
you’ll aporte something to this thread…

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I heard these speakers at a hifi show and was very impressed with them.

Addicted to hifi said:

I heard these speakers at a hifi show and was very impressed with them.

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what are the speakers

Stereophonic said:

you’ll aporte something to this thread…

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Yes. And every other thread too. Time to ignore.

Stereophonic said:

A lovely system with same speakers than mine…. View attachment 81226

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These ones in the picture.

Hi-FiGuy said:

what are the speakers

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The speakers in the picture above.

Stereophonic said:

I bet the sun is yellow…
the sea is blue…
the grass is green…
and maybe one day…
you’ll aporte something to this thread…

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I dont get it.