The truth about vinyl.vinyl vs digital

Gregadd · Jul 21, 2021

This video contains some useful information. Unfortunately it reaches a conclusion imo that is unsupported by and often contradicted by its evidence.
It adroitly avoids the claim that digital is superior. It states vinyls claimed superiority is little more than a preference primarily based on emotional and nostalgic factor.
Predictably digitals' shortcomings are barely mentioned. It glosses over jitter and clocking errors,etc.

Ron Resnick · Jul 21, 2021

To what video are you referring?

Gregadd · Jul 21, 2021

THE TRUTH ABOIT VINYL on you tube

Jeffy · Jul 21, 2021

It's obvious the guy has not heard good vinyl.

Gregadd · Jul 21, 2021

Perhaps one of you digitalfiles can help me.
Nyquist says you need only sample twice per cycle. Most illustrations show this as once at the max.and once at the min.
Red book is 44.1 Khz. Suggesting the signal is 44.1thousand times per second irrespective of freq. I think it would do that when the freq. is 20khz.
Does that make any sense?

thedudeabides · Jul 21, 2021

Again???????????????? This flippin horse is dead. And neither is better. It is simply a matter of execution and personal preference.

TooCool4 · Jul 21, 2021

Like has been said both are very good but different to each other, anyone that says one sounds better than the other? I say they have not heard a good example of the other.

In the video, did anyone notice how the cartridge’s electronics is in the counterweight? That alone made me switch off as this guy does not know what he is talking about.

Ron Resnick · Jul 21, 2021

Yes, this video is infuriating.

Verbatim from this video:

The actual truth here is that there is no functional difference in the audio quality between digital and analog formats. And studies show that the human ear and brain is not sufficiently equipped to distinguish the difference of the sound produced from analog signals when compared to a digital counterpart.

Digital and analog formats are functionally the same in the quality of sound produced.

Adding injury to insult is the fact that this misinformation video has enjoyed 3.8 million views. So 3.8 million people have now been presented with false and misleading assertions presented as objective, scientific fact ("studies show . . ." and "the actual truth here is . . . "); fictitious certainty; and technical design information articulated subliminally as objective proof of what is merely a hypothesis.

Of course the producer of this video manifests no self-reflection, and does not even consider the possibility that he, personally, is incapable of hearing a difference in sound quality between digital and analog, or that other humans might be able to hear a difference.

This video would have been fine if it had been titled: "The Engineering Truth About Vinyl" and if it had omitted all of the "same sound quality" falsehoods. All the narrator had to say was that other people may be able to hear differences in sound quality that he is incapable of hearing, and that for some people the preference for analog is based on its sound quality and not on nostalgia or a desire to handle physical media. But why complicate your narrative when you can simply mislead and very few people will question you?

If anyone can find the direct contact information for whoever published that video I would like to make contact and present our contrary views.

Gregadd · Jul 21, 2021

TooCool4 said:
In the video, did anyone notice how the cartridge’s electronics is in the counterweight? That alone made me switch off as this guy does not know what he is talking about.

I did notice that. Ypu are right. That is glaring error that destroys his credibility.

XV-1 · Jul 21, 2021

I had to stop watching that BS.

The truth about Vinyl plank flooring was more interesting

Andrew S. · Jul 22, 2021

XV-1 said:
I had to stop watching that BS.

The truth about Vinyl plank flooring was more interesting

He he - but Shane that was like getting your prostrate checked - you just knew it was going to be a bad day out before walking in the door.....

thedudeabides · Jul 22, 2021

Ron Resnick said:
Digital and analog formats are functionally the same in the quality of sound produced.

Ron, so what. We are bombarded with false truths and misrepresentations everyday. "Truth and facts" are becoming an endangered species and alternative realities and tribalism are rampant. I'd point out the obvious numerous political examples but, respecting WBF rules, I won't. One could argue that the internet, as wonderful as it can be, has destroyed our national fabric and the ability to find consensus and common ground. Unfortunately, this is the nature of our society on social media and broadcast "news", in general, at this point. We all just have to deal with half truths and lies and not take any of it too seriously. Otherwise, you risk damaging your personal health and well being.

Ron Resnick · Jul 22, 2021

I think it is especially repugnant when objective engineering and technical analysis is used as the foundation for a false or misleading subjective assertion.

DaveC · Jul 22, 2021

Audio is both infuriating and interesting because we don't understand it fully and as a result often come to questionable conclusions.

Even here on WBF with extremely experienced members we have 100% subjective analysis of sound with little to no technical understanding and as a result some conclusions are made that have no basis in reality.

On analog vs digital the largest issue that seems to rarely be mentioned is analog distortions and artifacts are both psychoacoustically preferred in many cases and are also acclimated to by the listener. Digital otoh is not, so distortions and artifacts added by a DAC are unpleasant.

PeterA · Jul 22, 2021

DaveC said:
Even here on WBF with extremely experienced members we have 100% subjective analysis of sound with little to no technical understanding and as a result some conclusions are made that have no basis in reality.

Dave, could you please share a few examples of these conclusions that have no basis in reality? Thank you.

ddk · Jul 22, 2021

DaveC said:
Audio is both infuriating and interesting because we don't understand it fully and as a result often come to questionable conclusions.

Even here on WBF with extremely experienced members we have 100% subjective analysis of sound with little to no technical understanding and as a result some conclusions are made that have no basis in reality.

High end sound reproduction is about sound quality which is both objective and subjective not measurements. It's actually measurements and technical hype that have no correlation to sound and ie reality! [personal criticism deleted]

DaveC said:
On analog vs digital the largest issue that seems to rarely be mentioned is analog distortions and artifacts are both psychoacoustically preferred in many cases and are also acclimated to by the listener. Digital otoh is not, so distortions and artifacts added by a DAC are unpleasant.

Since you're science-ing it stating it as if they're facts expand on these "psychoacoustically preferred" distortions and artifacts? What are they, what specific frequencies and supporting data?

david

Mikem53 · Jul 22, 2021

Gregadd said:
THE TRUTH ABOIT VINYL on you tube

The title was enough of an indication not to watch it..

TooCool4 said:
Like has been said both are very good but different to each other, anyone that says one sounds better than the other? I say they have not heard a good example of the other.

In the video, did anyone notice how the cartridge’s electronics is in the counterweight?

Well said !

PeterA · Jul 22, 2021

ddk said:
High end sound reproduction is about sound quality which is both objective and subjective not measurements. It's actually measurements and technical hype that have no correlation to sound and ie reality! Maybe you have difficulty hearing and understanding what you're listening to but it's not the case for everyone.

Since you're science-ing it stating it as if they're facts expand on these "psychoacoustically preferred" distortions and artifacts? What are they, what specific frequencies and supporting data?

david

Imagine posing these same observations and questions to the guy who made that video. I would love to hear his response.

In my opinion, these are the kinds of things that need to be addressed and discussed to understand the debate between analog and digital and to move forward with improvements. We know measurements don’t tell us everything. Distortions are interesting things. We don’t all hear them the same way. Even if some people agree on what they are hearing, they don’t always agree on which sounds better or more realistic or more accurate.

DaveC · Jul 22, 2021

Ron Resnick said:
I think it is especially repugnant when objective engineering and technical analysis is used as the foundation for a false or misleading subjective assertion.

Agreed, but much of this is done in good faith by folks who don't know better. As mentioned, it's very easy to come to incorrect conclusions and even easier if you have no technical background and you also don't understand logic or have studied logical fallacies.

thedudeabides · Jul 22, 2021

Ron Resnick said:
I think it is especially repugnant when objective engineering and technical analysis is used as the foundation for a false or misleading subjective assertion.

So what. You can simply choose to ignore one of numerous A v D utube videos on the internet, which are by nature subjective, and focus on other issues.

The truth about vinyl.vinyl vs digital

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