Taiko Audio SGM Extreme : the Crème de la Crème

tsaett · Aug 17, 2020

wil said:
Hi Chris,

In my opinion, from a user perspective, it would be ideal to have the Streaming playlists and Local playlist to be separate. Is that how you envision it at this time?

I could see how it might be convenient to be running Roon on one device (like the Desktop) and TAS on another (like the iPad) to make it easier to go between the two. Would a log-in/ log-out procedure still have to occur going between one to the other?

Hi Wil,

don't know if we are on the same page, I was referring to the import of mixed Roon playlist files into TAS.
For sure you can store your playlists separately for streaming and local files. However, the beauty of apps like TAS and Roon is in my opinion the seamless integration of local playback and streaming. Therefore TAS will allow the creation of mixed playlists. If you like to have these separate, you can of course simply save them like that in the first place.

Regarding the switching between Roon and TAS - Both of these apps will run locally on the Extreme, the remote devices (iphone, tablet,...) will just act as control units. You can have both remote apps for Roon and TAS on the same device or on all your devices, that really doesn't make a difference. You just do not want to have both apps running at the same time, both for sound quality reasons as well as safety reasons (like 0 dBfs pops). That's why you can switch them on and off from the Taiko app. You will not experience any login / logout troubles in the final release, you will be able to switch between the two in a matter of seconds, seamless blending into each other. In fact we just recently managed to accomplish that without having to manually log into Roon again, something we surely don't want the users to go through!

Hope that clarifies things a bit

Regards
Chris

Exocer · Aug 17, 2020

Taiko Audio said:
A plan B idea we're considering is releasing the design to the DIY market and/or 3rd party builders. What that could look like is we'd make the ATX DC regulator board available for purchase with a recommended motherboard/CPU and software configuration. Perhaps with a few CNC machined parts you'd need to complete the build properly into a HDPlex or Streacom chassis. That way people could still benefit from our design efforts and we'd have a ROI.

Long time lurker, first time poster here.

This sounds like a terrific idea. I fully support this as a DIYer, and as someone who would love to contribute and provide feedback towards further optimizations.

alwayslearning · Aug 17, 2020

Chris, I fully agree that Roon's seamless integration of local playback and streaming is one of its very best features and is something to be emulated in TAS if at all possible. The ability to create playlists using both streamed and local files (mixed playlists) is a great step in that direction. For someone like me, who has roughly 200 such playlists already in Roon, and which constitutes a sort of personal listening history going back over a decade, the ability to import these playlists into TAS would be another huge step. I suppose I could always re-create these playlists in TAS, but if some way to import these can be devised, I for one would be most grateful.

I'm also happy to hear that you believe that developing an Apple desktop TAS application would not be a huge stretch (even if not available immediately).

Thanks for letting users participate in the development process (I am a future user; my Extreme will likely be shipping in a matter of weeks).

stretchneck · Aug 18, 2020

Taiko Audio said:
A plan B idea we're considering is releasing the design to the DIY market and/or 3rd party builders. What that could look like is we'd make the ATX DC regulator board available for purchase with a recommended motherboard/CPU and software configuration. Perhaps with a few CNC machined parts you'd need to complete the build properly into a HDPlex or Streacom chassis. That way people could still benefit from our design efforts and we'd have a ROI.

.

Sounds great to me - I'd buy it.

spiritofmusic · Aug 18, 2020

Emile, would your TAS be available on this DIY build?

dminches · Aug 18, 2020

spiritofmusic said:
Emile, would your TAS be available on this DIY build?

I didn't get the impression that Emile was planning on charging people for the information that he would release for a DIY build. Thus, isn't the question if TAS will be available to non-Taiko (or Extreme) customers?

spiritofmusic · Aug 18, 2020

Yes, but this is a Taiko product surely, even if my unfriendly neighbourhood NASA/DoD hacker helps put it together for me. If TAS was available thru this route, many might very well consider it.

matthias · Aug 18, 2020

spiritofmusic said:
Emile, would your TAS be available on this DIY build?

The next question would be what about the stripped Windows version the Extreme uses?

Matt

Taiko Audio · Aug 18, 2020

spiritofmusic said:
Emile, would your TAS be available on this DIY build?

dminches said:
I didn't get the impression that Emile was planning on charging people for the information that he would release for a DIY build. Thus, isn't the question if TAS will be available to non-Taiko (or Extreme) customers?

matthias said:
The next question would be what about the stripped Windows version the Extreme uses?

Matt

Those options are on the table. A potential issue is these are not individual parts you can just throw in a box and assume good performance. Every part influences everything else, change one part, a single hardware component, or a single software setting, and the equation changes. We will have to consider support load. Sharing information is one thing, but a considerable investment of time is another. Our time stopped being free when we started hiring staff. An Extreme includes our, currently unlimited, support as part of the purchasing price, for this we would have to take a good look on how to deal with that particular "issue".

Taiko Audio · Aug 18, 2020

Due to undisclosed personal circumstances a valued customer is looking to sell his system. This includes a 4 month old Extreme, silver colour, with 8TB of internal storage. He is looking for a serious non opportunistic buyer, so please no low ball offers. The unit is located in Texas. This would be a good opportunity to get an Extreme fast with some hours under it's belt as a bonus. Send me a PM or e-mail at contact@taikoaudio.com if interested.

Taiko Audio · Aug 18, 2020

It looks like this unit has now been sold.

Steve Williams · Aug 18, 2020

Taiko Audio said:
It looks like this unit has now been sold.

Was there ever any doubt that a quick sale was inevitable

Heck we were talking an essentially new Extreme when new ones are now backordered by 6-8 weeks.

matthias · Aug 18, 2020

Taiko Audio said:
Those options are on the table. A potential issue is these are not individual parts you can just throw in a box and assume good performance. Every part influences everything else, change one part, a single hardware component, or a single software setting, and the equation changes. We will have to consider support load. Sharing information is one thing, but a considerable investment of time is another. Our time stopped being free when we started hiring staff. An Extreme includes our, currently unlimited, support as part of the purchasing price, for this we would have to take a good look on how to deal with that particular "issue".

Agree,
the diy parts would bear the Taiko brand but the end product made with this parts is not a Taiko product any more.
What is missing is fine tuning of software and hardware by the master designer. It is not as simple as building a power supply for a certain device with modules from SJ or MPAudio. The pressure for support might then be even greater than when launching a ready made product where most parameters can be set with the UI of TAS.

Matt

Steve Williams · Aug 18, 2020

The pressure for support might then be even greater than when launching a ready made product where most parameters can be set with the UI of TAS.

I totally agree that this could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Emile has had to hire 3 people just to answer consumer questions which I'm sure costs a lot of money and time

IMO Emile needs to do what other electronics companies customer service does.....typically with a new unit there is free customer service for 3 hours or possibly 3 months but after that they charge for technicians and customer support, usually by the hour.I would suggest that something like this be specified in the Taiko warranty and rather than charging an hourly fee I would recommend that each owner be offered either an annual licence for say $199 for unlimited access or even better a lifetime license for $750 that also offers unlimited tech support..I would buy into that

matthias · Aug 18, 2020

Without any experiences with TAS I dare to say that it will be so smart designed to allow a decrease in demand for customer support. I think most problems can then be solved with some guidance on the HP of Taiko Audio and the UI of TAS.

Matt

Kingsrule · Aug 18, 2020

Steve Williams said:
I totally agree that this could be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Emile has had to hire 3 people just to answer consumer questions which I'm sure costs a lot of money and time

IMO Emile needs to do what other electronics companies customer service does.....typically with a new unit there is free customer service for 3 hours or possibly 3 months but after that they charge for technicians and customer support, usually by the hour.I would suggest that something like this be specified in the Taiko warranty and rather than charging an hourly fee I would recommend that each owner be offered either an annual licence for say $199 for unlimited access or even better a lifetime license for $750 that also offers unlimited tech support..I would buy into that

What audio company does that?? Your proposed model never works, appears greedy, and doesn't promote goodwill. And how would the current Taiko customers feel about a support change for their purchase? If there isn't enough proft coming in to support the company model/goals then a price increase is the only way to go IMO.

Steve Williams · Aug 18, 2020

Kingsrule said:
What audio company does that?? Your proposed model never works, appears greedy, and doesn't promote goodwill. And how would the current Taiko customers feel about a support change for their purchase? If there isn't enough proft coming in to support the company model/goals then a price increase is the only way to go IMO.

Totally disagree.

for one Xenforo whose platform we use charges an annual fee. Sadly I feel you can’t see the trees for the forest. My last NAS from Western Electric had a tech fee. You would rather Emile spend all of his time and money talking rather than designing. This is the real world and Emile to date has given unconditionally to support his product. I believe like any new product there is a earranty period as well as a period of free tech support. After that there’s no free ride. Hence I totally disagree with you

dminches · Aug 18, 2020

Kingsrule said:
What audio company does that?? Your proposed model never works, appears greedy, and doesn't promote goodwill. And how would the current Taiko customers feel about a support change for their purchase? If there isn't enough proft coming in to support the company model/goals then a price increase is the only way to go IMO.

+1

I have never paid $1 for technical support for any electronics component I have purchased.

Unfortunately, anything involving software requires continual support, especially since in the case of the Extreme most of the software hasn't been created by Taiko. It is a complicated situation. I don't think that people who buy "bits and pieces" of hardware and software from Taiko should expect the same level of support that people who have purchased the Extreme get.

dminches · Aug 18, 2020

Steve Williams said:
Totally disagree.

for one Xenforo whose platform we use charges an annual fee. Sadly I feel you can’t see the trees for the forest. My last NAS from Western Electric had a tech fee. You would rather Emile spend all of his time and money talking rather than designing. This is the real world and Emile to date has given unconditionally to support his product. I believe like any new product there is a earranty period as well as a period of free tech support. After that there’s no free ride. Hence I totally disagree with you

Steve, you are talking about software platforms, not really electronics.

Steve Williams · Aug 18, 2020

dminches said:
Steve, you are talking about software platforms, not really electronics.

The analogy is similar. Can’t everyone see that Emile has become overwhelmed with customer service requiring hiring three new people. That ain’t feee

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