KeithR's "Dream Speaker" Search

andromedaaudio

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I once lived in a rental property when i bought a new levinson 431 poweramp.
The thing would play for a while and then shut off , a lot of back and forth by the dealer /distributor and me .
Great service by the way by the levinson distributor.
Nobody knew what was happening.
I then got the advice to measure the wall outlet voltage , and that was the problem .
The sealed installation fuse had not been installed properly , this loose contact caused large voltage swings , and when the levinson saw 205 V for example instead of 220 it would switch of automatically .
Called the electricity supplier and they broke the seal box and replaced the mainfuse.
Problem solved
 

Barry2013

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It's legal here. But it's not smart. Though it's a ton of work in a lot of these old Cali houses to rectify. It took me three weeks to rewire my 1950s house and I cut open many walls in the process. Had I not, I might still be work on that job. Thank God for skilled drywall and texture contractors.

Thanks for clearing that point up Bazelio but IME insurance compamies globally tend to be pretty hot on exclusions for avoidable risks. Don't know if that is an issue in your neck of the woods but it might be sensible for Keith to check.
Irrespective,however, of that point, if I were Keith I would be disposed at the very least to ask the landlord when the wiring was last checked and to request a copy of the report. Unless there has been a recent check I would want the landlord to organise an up to date check in the light of the problems.
 
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DaveC

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It's legal here. But it's not smart. Though it's a ton of work in a lot of these old Cali houses to rectify. It took me three weeks to rewire my 1950s house and I cut open many walls in the process. Had I not, I might still be work on that job. Thank God for skilled drywall and texture contractors.


Even if updating is not required, a 3-prong receptacle without a ground may not be to code, that seems very dangerous!

Often the power company can be called on to come out and do an inspection, sometimes free, sometimes with a reasonable fee, depending on where and what they do.
 

KeithR

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I'm not going through the power mess with my landlord nor care about opening the old house wiring morass myself. Even a grounding rod can become a big project - it would be located right next to a solid brick front deck, so unsure how it could be easily done.

There is a GFCI outlet in the addition in the bathroom, so there is something grounded in the house - it's just not in the living room haha.

I ordered 12awg extension cords to match the captive Ampzilla cords and will run everything off the Torus and circle back if any issues. I use all of 0.5 amps without amps on the outlet, have never had an issue in 6 months with voltage etc off that outlet.
 
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BruceD

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Hey Cobra--Luv ya Style man!--telling it as it is--Keith's a lucky dude to have you in his camp;)

Keep up the great posts, and get him cooking' with gas!

BruceD
 

KeithR

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As far as the peak LED lights - I spoke to the manufacturer who said the LED is quite sensitive and faint flashing lights are just higher distortion creeping in, not clipping. If the light goes solid bright red it's a clip.

The amps have no ground themselves - so are sensitive to ground loops and subs like REL whose wiring scheme uses a common ground.
 

KeithR

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Keith, first, congratulations.

Two questions...

What are your room dimensions?

From something that Phil said I'd like to learn your take.
What do you generally consider are the YG's (or Haileys specifically) "tonal liabilities"?

Hey Tim- my room is 16x24 with the speakers on the long wall.

For me YG is a cooler/analytical speaker on the wrong amp. It needs a slight warm of center amp to match well- ie. not Spectral, Soulution, Audionet, etc.
 

asiufy

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Hey Tim- my room is 16x24 with the speakers on the long wall.

For me YG is a cooler/analytical speaker on the wrong amp. It needs a slight warm of center amp to match well- ie. not Spectral, Soulution, Audionet, etc.

Emphasis mine. I've found out the YG lets the amp do its thing. If it's a warm amp, the YGs will sound warm. Same goes for everything else behind them, down to the cables.
As such, there are no 'tonal liabilities' to speak of. Only preferences. And the poster who used this unfortunate term has his own set of preferences, which do not include aluminum drivers/boxes or a crossover even.
 

tima

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Hey Tim- my room is 16x24 with the speakers on the long wall.

For me YG is a cooler/analytical speaker on the wrong amp. It needs a slight warm of center amp to match well- ie. not Spectral, Soulution, Audionet, etc.

Thanks for that. I heard one of the Sonja models with Soulution amps a few years back at CES. Sounded a bit mechanical.

I was thinking that fireplace wall looked quite long. That's spacious. What are you thinking for a listening triangle?
 

Mdp632

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Emphasis mine. I've found out the YG lets the amp do its thing. If it's a warm amp, the YGs will sound warm. Same goes for everything else behind them, down to the cables.
As such, there are no 'tonal liabilities' to speak of. Only preferences. And the poster who used this unfortunate term has his own set of preferences, which do not include aluminum drivers/boxes or a crossover even.

Have to second this. The speaker (YG) will convey what's behind it. You like warmth , go for a warm amp and vice versa.

Can be a trial and error to find the right "Subjective Synergy" with YG but, once you do its very rewarding :)
 

213Cobra

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Emphasis mine. I've found out the YG lets the amp do its thing. If it's a warm amp, the YGs will sound warm. Same goes for everything else behind them, down to the cables.
As such, there are no 'tonal liabilities' to speak of. Only preferences. And the poster who used this unfortunate term has his own set of preferences, which do not include aluminum drivers/boxes or a crossover even.
I have to laugh. You say that like it's a bad thing. I am pretty sure everyone on this forum has their own set of preferences! If you think the YG is absent tonal liabilities then you believe in the fairy tale of the perfect speaker, in which case I can't help you understand. The flat-frequency-fetish design priority of the YG results in other sacrifices. Now, I have no issue with YG designing from a flat-first conviction. That's a legitimate starting point. But to sacrifice everything else to that, well that's going to stimulate some rebuttal. A polar graph of musically convincing attributes will not be a perfect circle. So let's be serious. YG has one way to build a speaker. Keith likes it. That's what matters in his decision. If the YG really just "lets the amp do its thing..." then I would have expected Luxman and ARC to prove more successful. Clearly, the YG doesn't just let the amp do its thing. It wasn't something very specific.

But, just where complex music guarantees a lot of collisions between upper midrange in vocals and convergence of guitars, strings, brass, percussion, etc., YG sticks a crossover point (1750 Hz), and this is where the speaker has its greatest trouble. The crossover creates a dynamic choke point that doesn't keep up with the rest of the frequency range. The speaker has trouble keeping simultaneous events untangled and you can hear the strain in the choke point. This also leans out some of the character of voices and instruments, especially voices above their fundamentals, compared to some other systems. From a frequency distribution standpoint the YG is a relatively objective speaker. But it will make a "cool" amp sound leaner and colder than it is, but will not make a "warm" amp sound as warm as it actually is. Is this a high fidelity crime? No. Nothing's perfect and the designer made some choices that lead to this. I can't help it if someone else doesn't hear it. But there it is. The speaker has great bass when coupled to an amp that can drive and control the low range. Bass quality is essentially beyond reproach for something you can put in your home. The top end sounds harmonically dry -- perhaps a trifle harmonically incomplete -- but that's a smaller point and easy to get around. In the midrange, the speaker can do solo singer + one or two instruments well. With the Ampzillas it can deliver more explosive dynamics than I expected (but not as explosive as I can get out of 25w with 101db/w/m speakers) and that seems fine in Keith's room. In a room half again larger, more power would have to be found.

It's the unfortunate crossover point choice (well, if you're going to have a crossover in the first place) combined with the design mandate for low efficiency which sharply restricts amplification options, that most limit the YG. On crossovers, bingo -- my preferences not only do not include crossovers -- since Zu, Audience and a few others made crossoverless speakers practical and musically convincing -- I am adamantly opposed to crossovers, and the longer I am absent them in my systems (crossoverless since 2004) the more obviously I hear crossover liabilities undermine music. I paid my crossover dues and hacked my way out of that dystopian jungle for 35 years before making it to a clearing. But I have no specific bias for or against aluminum in boxes. Aluminum can be structurally effective and properly damped, if the designer pays enough attention to those factors. Aluminum in drivers? Well, no, not my first choice, but again, if you are a speaker designer and choose to use aluminum drivers, then prove to me you can use it properly. Just understand that today even paper can be an advanced material.

The YG isn't, as I wrote before, my kind of speaker. But if a friend buys them, then I'm interested in getting the system with them in it to sound as convincing as possible for the choices made. As a 3way, YG did a much better-than-usual job of making a crossover-intensive, multi-way loudspeaker sound reasonably coherent. The drivers have nearly uniform dynamic behaviors. None of the drivers sound less disciplined or substantially differently-behaved than the others. His claimed very good phase coherence sounds largely born out in listening.

In a lot of ways, a "cool" speaker is easier to live with and compensate for than an overly warm one. The YGs won't give Sinatra a head cold. But they can give him a Vegas-arid scratchy throat or some strain from desiccated vocal chords even when it's raining. The speaker gets tangled in full orchestra crescendo for similar reasons. These may be minor points to some people. Some people don't hear it. Some people hear it and don't care. Some people hear it and will never buy that speaker. People do what they do. Until someone asks me for a recommendation or opinion, I don't care what they buy. But when they ask, neither a dealer nor anyone else can expect me to defer. What I hear, I will say.

Phil
 
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asiufy

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OK Phil.
Have fun.
 

Ron Resnick

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. . .
I've been of the firm belief for years that audiophiles love to underdrive speakers on amps that "can work" - vs effortless sound from those that actually do work.

. . .

+1
 

Ron Resnick

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Keith, if the Ampzillas don't work out, I'm thinking the new Parasound JC1+ monos might be the sleepers you've been looking for.

Have you heard them in the same system to compare to the Ampzillas?
 

morricab

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As far as the peak LED lights - I spoke to the manufacturer who said the LED is quite sensitive and faint flashing lights are just higher distortion creeping in, not clipping. If the light goes solid bright red it's a clip.

The amps have no ground themselves - so are sensitive to ground loops and subs like REL whose wiring scheme uses a common ground.
Yes, Bongiorno liked to use a circuit he called a “balanced bridge” that was floating. He came up with it for the Sumo amps (My first real high end amp was the all Class A Sumo 9 that had an earlier version of the reborn Ampzilla circuit). There were warnings in my Sumo 9 manual about testing with ground etc.
 

morricab

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I have to laugh. You say that like it's a bad thing. I am pretty sure everyone on this forum has their own set of preferences! If you think the YG is absent tonal liabilities then you believe in the fairy tale of the perfect speaker, in which case I can't help you understand. The flat-frequency-fetish design priority of the YG results in other sacrifices. Now, I have no issue with YG designing from a flat-first conviction. That's a legitimate starting point. But to sacrifice everything else to that, well that's going to stimulate some rebuttal. A polar graph of musically convincing attributes will not be a perfect circle. So let's be serious. YG has one way to build a speaker. Keith likes it. That's what matters in his decision. If the YG really just "lets the amp do its thing..." then I would have expected Luxman and ARC to prove more successful. Clearly, the YG doesn't just let the amp do its thing. It wasn't something very specific.

But, just where complex music guarantees a lot of collisions between upper midrange in vocals and convergence of guitars, strings, brass, percussion, etc., YG sticks a crossover point (1750 Hz), and this is where the speaker has its greatest trouble. The crossover creates a dynamic choke point that doesn't keep up with the rest of the frequency range. The speaker has trouble keeping simultaneous events untangled and you can hear the strain in the choke point. This also leans out some of the character of voices and instruments, especially voices above their fundamentals, compared to some other systems. From a frequency distribution standpoint the YG is a relatively objective speaker. But it will make a "cool" amp sound leaner and colder than it is, but will not make a "warm" amp sound as warm as it actually is. Is this a high fidelity crime? No. Nothing's perfect and the designer made some choices that lead to this. I can't help it if someone else doesn't hear it. But there it is. The speaker has great bass when coupled to an amp that can drive and control the low range. Bass quality is essentially beyond reproach for something you can put in your home. The top end sounds harmonically dry -- perhaps a trifle harmonically incomplete -- but that's a smaller point and easy to get around. In the midrange, the speaker can do solo singer + one or two instruments well. With the Ampzillas it can deliver more explosive dynamics than I expected (but not as explosive as I can get out of 25w with 101db/w/m speakers) and that seems fine in Keith's room. In a room half again larger, more power would have to be found.

It's the unfortunate crossover point choice (well, if you're going to have a crossover in the first place) combined with the design mandate for low efficiency which sharply restricts amplification options, that most limit the YG. On crossovers, bingo -- my preferences not only do not include crossovers -- since Zu, Audience and a few others made crossoverless speakers practical and musically convincing -- I am adamantly opposed to crossovers, and the longer I am absent them in my systems (crossoverless since 2004) the more obviously I hear crossover liabilities undermine music. I paid my crossover dues and hacked my way out of that dystopian jungle for 35 years before making it to a clearing. But I have no specific bias for or against aluminum in boxes. Aluminum can be structurally effective and properly damped, if the designer pays enough attention to those factors. Aluminum in drivers? Well, no, not my first choice, but again, if you are a speaker designer and choose to use aluminum drivers, then prove to me you can use it properly. Just understand that today even paper can be an advanced material.

The YG isn't, as I wrote before, my kind of speaker. But if a friend buys them, then I'm interested in getting the system with them in it to sound as convincing as possible for the choices made. As a 3way, YG did a much better-than-usual job of making a crossover-intensive, multi-way loudspeaker sound reasonably coherent. The drivers have nearly uniform dynamic behaviors. None of the drivers sound less disciplined or substantially differently-behaved than the others. His claimed very good phase coherence sounds largely born out in listening.

In a lot of ways, a "cool" speaker is easier to live with and compensate for than an overly warm one. The YGs won't give Sinatra a head cold. But they can give him a Vegas-arid scratchy throat or some strain from desiccated vocal chords even when it's raining. The speaker gets tangles in full orchestra crescendo for similar reasons. These may be minor points to some people. Some people don't hear it. Some people hear it and don't care. Some people hear it and will never buy that speaker. People do what they do. Until someone asks me for a recommendation or opinion, I don't care what they buy. But when they ask, neither a dealer nor anyone else can expect me to defer. What I hear, I will say.

Phil
I would be inclined to think some of the dryness in the highs is a consequence of the apparent necessity for high power SS. I heard Carmel 2 with all Brinkmann rig (probably the only SS I could consider living with) and the highs were quite nice and it is a similar teeeter I would imagine. You make a good point about the crossover frequency...
 

213Cobra

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Aug 27, 2018
328
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Los Angeles, CA
I would be inclined to think some of the dryness in the highs is a consequence of the apparent necessity for high power SS. I heard Carmel 2 with all Brinkmann rig (probably the only SS I could consider living with) and the highs were quite nice and it is a similar teeeter I would imagine. You make a good point about the crossover frequency...
I'm sure that's a contributor, though the Ampzilla is a relatively "wet" amp for solid state. The problem is, if you want some tube liquidity, there's no practical way to get it.

Phil
 

213Cobra

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2018
328
344
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Los Angeles, CA
Thats your opinion phil im sure it doesnt count for everyone.
One mans wish is the other mans curse .
Or whatever the saying was .
I havent even heard d agostino or dartzeel properly
Since i have the CAT i became completely ignorant.
It doesn't. Isn't everything expressed here that isn't a statistic, an opinion? Some people will agree with me, some with Alex, some with Keith and some others. I'm unaffected by the count, so to speak. -Phil
 

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