New to Vinyl - A lot of questions

blaze182

Member
Feb 7, 2021
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Hello, I am new to vinyl and have a number of questions that, despite many YouTube videos and thread reading, I can't really find conclusive answers. I'm not sure yet if vinyl is for me, and could go vinyl or digital. In any case, I am looking for a physical, piece of furniture to add to the room as a source. I need the audio to be super clean. I don't mind changing records so much, as I usually put a single track or album on and leave it.

My portable audio setup is: AK SP1000, Han Redcore balanced cable, Campfire Audio Solaris, Jupiter and Andromeda. Previously I had full-size headphones, AKG K701 and HD800's. My speakers are B&O BeoLab 90's with BeoLab 18's in rear (living room). I use the SP1000 as source, either FLAC or Deezer lossless streaming.

My questions are as follows:

1. Is noise common/unavoidable in using turntables?
2. BeoLab 90's are active; should I/do I need to pre-amp the signal from the turntable?
3. Do you recommend any hardware (TT or pre-amp)?
4. My budget is flexible, $1,000-$10,000; I value value and really need a clean sound. Static/white noise would drive me up the wall.

Thanks :)
 
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Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Welcome to WBF and vinyl. If you do not know Michael Fremer of Analog Planet is the place for you.
I'll start the ball rolling with the noise issue. There is no noise that is inherent to vinyl playback. A well cleaned record with a properly aligned phono cartridge fed through a quality phono stage should be noise free. Tape hiss from the original tape may be a problem.
 

blaze182

Member
Feb 7, 2021
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Thank you for your response, the Analog Planet reviews are already very helpful. It will be challenging for me still to rationalise a TT at $2,000, $6,000 or $10,000.

I understand more expensive is usually better, but in analog, despite attempts to be objective by the reviewers, I can't find the right verbiage or metrics which could indicate one purchase over the other. Is someting like an X2 by Pro-Ject going to be destinctively different to a Technics 1210GAE?
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Thank you for your response, the Analog Planet reviews are already very helpful. It will be challenging for me still to rationalize a TT at $2,000, $6,000 or $10,000.

I understand more expensive is usually better, but in analog, despite attempts to be objective by the reviewers, I can't find the right verbiage or metrics which could indicate one purchase over the other. Is something like an X2 by Pro-Ject going to be distinctively different to a Technics 1210GAE?
Sorry I am not in position to rank TT's. My go to TT for budget is the Technics SL-1200. I can't rank it. Surprisingly there is a wealth of excellent TT's and phono stages at reasonable prices. I can recommend the VPI 16.5 RCM under$1k.
The verbiage and metrics are pretty common and should be easy to pick up.
 

docvale

Well-Known Member
Mar 21, 2011
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Briarcliff Manor, NY
Hi,

Here you'll find lots of people that, way better than me, would give informed suggestions on the way to jump into this rabbit hole.

Let me just give you two pieces of thoughts, one being an opinion and one an objective fact:

- vinyl will be, measurement wise, more noisy than digital for sure. Yet, even in my earthbound setup, audible noise depends only on the status of my records and, with clean ones, it is virtually absent. The thing is, instead, that when I'm spinning a record I feel something that goes beyond the high fidelity. I go through a ritual, I listen to an entire record - thus following the concept developed by the artist - without the frenzy to jump from song to song. It is time that I dedicate to myself on a slow pace that allows me to focus more on the nuances of the music. Also, I love records as objects and building a collection will be as fulfilling as putting your hands on a fine setup

- your speakers are active and you'll need a phono preamplifier. It seems that your speakers, despite being a digital DSP based design, accept analog signals (which I assume would undergo through an ADC stage before processing and digital crossover). Since they have an XLR set of inputs, you could consider a phono stage that is driven in current rather than voltage mode (such as the Channel D Lino C 2.0), a design that would contribute to keep the noise floor very low, even with low output MC cartridges. For the best alignment with this approach, you should pick a turntable with a tonearm that is cabled to support a balanced transmission (hence, no Rega record players)
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Hello, I am new to vinyl and have a number of questions that, despite many YouTube videos and thread reading, I can't really find conclusive answers. I'm not sure yet if vinyl is for me, and could go vinyl or digital. In any case, I am looking for a physical, piece of furniture to add to the room as a source. I need the audio to be super clean. I don't mind changing records so much, as I usually put a single track or album on and leave it.

My portable audio setup is: AK SP1000, Han Redcore balanced cable, Campfire Audio Solaris, Jupiter and Andromeda. Previously I had full-size headphones, AKG K701 and HD800's. My speakers are B&O BeoLab 90's with BeoLab 18's in rear (living room). I use the SP1000 as source, either FLAC or Deezer lossless streaming.

My questions are as follows:

1. Is noise common/unavoidable in using turntables?
2. BeoLab 90's are active; should I/do I need to pre-amp the signal from the turntable?
3. Do you recommend any hardware (TT or pre-amp)?
4. My budget is flexible, $1,000-$10,000; I value value and really need a clean sound. Static/white noise would drive me up the wall.

Thanks :)

Welcome to WBF, blaze182! You have come to the right place!.
 

blaze182

Member
Feb 7, 2021
7
1
10
34
Hi,

Here you'll find lots of people that, way better than me, would give informed suggestions on the way to jump into this rabbit hole.

Let me just give you two pieces of thoughts, one being an opinion and one an objective fact:

- vinyl will be, measurement wise, more noisy than digital for sure. Yet, even in my earthbound setup, audible noise depends only on the status of my records and, with clean ones, it is virtually absent. The thing is, instead, that when I'm spinning a record I feel something that goes beyond the high fidelity. I go through a ritual, I listen to an entire record - thus following the concept developed by the artist - without the frenzy to jump from song to song. It is time that I dedicate to myself on a slow pace that allows me to focus more on the nuances of the music. Also, I love records as objects and building a collection will be as fulfilling as putting your hands on a fine setup

- your speakers are active and you'll need a phono preamplifier. It seems that your speakers, despite being a digital DSP based design, accept analog signals (which I assume would undergo through an ADC stage before processing and digital crossover). Since they have an XLR set of inputs, you could consider a phono stage that is driven in current rather than voltage mode (such as the Channel D Lino C 2.0), a design that would contribute to keep the noise floor very low, even with low output MC cartridges. For the best alignment with this approach, you should pick a turntable with a tonearm that is cabled to support a balanced transmission (hence, no Rega record players)
Thanks all for the input.

I would very much prefer a TT with balanced cabling. Also, I'm curious about Rega Planar 10 - its taking a light-weight approach vs. a heavy weight approach. Science or magic? It seems an outlier on this point. If you were going to drive some serious volume I can't see lighter being better.

In any case, noted that Rega is a no-go due to no balancing. Which brands or TT would you recommend with balanced?

XLR would be my preferred output for sure.
 

docvale

Well-Known Member
Mar 21, 2011
542
53
940
Briarcliff Manor, NY
The balanced option for connectivity depends exclusively on the way the cabling inside of the tonearm is wired. You can do it even with Pro-Ject tonearms (just to mention affordable options) or the various champions from Graham, Ortofon, Linn and so on. The easiest would be picking a tonearm that connects via a DIN output, so that you could pick a DIN-XLR cable.
As you noted, Rega arms would need to be internally re-wired, something that I would leave to a highly skilled technician.
 

chuck

Well-Known Member
Dec 19, 2011
358
314
968
San Diego
Thanks all for the input.

I would very much prefer a TT with balanced cabling. Also, I'm curious about Rega Planar 10 - its taking a light-weight approach vs. a heavy weight approach. Science or magic? It seems an outlier on this point. If you were going to drive some serious volume I can't see lighter being better.

In any case, noted that Rega is a no-go due to no balancing. Which brands or TT would you recommend with balanced?

XLR would be my preferred output for sure.
I would not automatically omit the Rega Planar 10. I had the prior P10 for several years and it worked great with my balanced input only Boulder 1008, with the appropriate adapters. The adapter does matter so you might have to try a couple to find one that is absolutely silent. Boulder sent me a different set when the ones that came with the 1008 were noisy.
 

docvale

Well-Known Member
Mar 21, 2011
542
53
940
Briarcliff Manor, NY
I would not automatically omit the Rega Planar 10. I had the prior P10 for several years and it worked great with my balanced input only Boulder 1008, with the appropriate adapters. The adapter does matter so you might have to try a couple to find one that is absolutely silent. Boulder sent me a different set when the ones that came with the 1008 were noisy.
The OP's comment comes after mine, which is specifically tailored about the use of a phono stage that is driven in current mode (such as the Lino C 2.0). The OP is very concerned about how much annoyance he might get from the hiss of record playing and I brought up this phono approach as it is described by several to be among the quietest.
 
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TooCool4

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Feb 7, 2013
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Welcome to What’s Best Forum blaze182.

You can read as much as you like and ask for recommendations / opinions on forums as much as you like, but at the end of the day it’s only other’s opinions and there are plenty of that around.

The best advice I will give you is once Covid is a bit more manageable, get out to dealers and listen to as many turntable combinations as you can and make up your own mind by using your ears. Only you know what you like, what is recommended by others may not be what you like. You are the one parting with your money and you are the one going to have to live with it day to day, so you better make sure you like it.

One last thing don’t dismiss the Rega’s. Rega has a different philosophy and approach, just because they are different does not make them wrong. Besides one way is not better than the other, it’s all about implementation. Check out the Rega Naiad, it’s even lighter than the rest of their turntables and at about £35000 it must be doing something correctly else people would not pay that kind of money for it.
 

Solypsa

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Jun 7, 2017
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www.solypsa.com
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4. My budget is flexible, $1,000-$10,000; I value value and really need a clean sound. Static/white noise would drive me up the wall.
Value is a funny thing. The more you find out about how you feel about vinyl ( if you like it in other systems, if you love it on a high spec system, even if that setup is out of budget, the difference between poor, mediocre, and excellent pressings etc.) and then the more you find out about vinyl playback ( drive types, musical priorities, user experience etc.) the more focused your search can become. I have friends that have great taste in music, love vinyl, and are quite happy with lower end playback for various reasons. Then some want more and a few of them get it :)

Given that a turntable is a mechanical device I feel that there are minimum requirements to get it 'good' that come at a cost. Certainly the latter half of your budget touches on this territory.
 

Rensselaer

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You have mentioned that you are looking for "a good clean sound" twice I believe, and I wonder if you would actually prefer to stick with streaming or perhaps build a better digital playback system.

Don't get me wrong, my main system is analogue only. But that is because I can't sit and relax to digital music. Whenever I come across records that were recorded from a digital source (happens too often lately) I give them away to friends who don't hear it.

Just like in politics, audiophiles (or better, those who enjoy listening to recorded music) seem to be born a certain type, most tend to prefer one type of recording (analogue vs digital) over the other. I believe (IMHO) that those who prefer digital enjoy/look for different characteristics in their music presentation than those who prefer analogue.

To me, digital sound comes out very clean, very clear, great transients, great dynamics, just no soul. I can not relax to digital music, so when you say you want "good clean sound" I suspect (only guessing) that you might be of the sort who doesn't perceive the "soul" (hard to explain but that is my word for it) that great analogue playback provides to me, that I have never heard or felt from great digital playback, regardless of sample rate.

The above is worth considering first before the next consideration, the cost. At first you are delighted with your purchase but after some weeks of listening you think you might be missing something, that perhaps it would be there with an upgrade. You read magazines, talk with experts, listen to other systems and then make the next purchase. This one costs more than the first, but the improvement is great, and keeps you happy for awhile, then the possibility of another upgrade comes to mind. Every upgrade now costs ever so much more, but for less and less improvement until you are paying everything for hardly anything. The Myth of Sisyphus by Albert Camus comes to mind here. What you don't want to do is go deep along one path only to discover it isn't for you then go back to the other and think about how much nicer of a system you would have had you not spent so much on the other.

This is my opinion only, others will probably differ as I expect to hear.
 

scot

Well-Known Member
Jan 4, 2018
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Hi Blaze182

Welcome to the wonderful world of lp’s. As far as I’m concerned, other than reel to reel, there is no better sounding source. For me, the general rule of thumb is digital can sound very good but is really a source of convenience. You get a server, get a nice dac, connect it to your system, get roon and subscribe to Qobuz and/or Tidal and find an album you like or maybe would like to explore some new music and press play. IMHO one of the biggest advantages of any digital setup is the ability to explore new music. If you get Qobuz or Tidal (probably the two most popular subscription based music providers) you have, at your fingertips, over 45 million songs you can listen to at literally the touch of a button, overnight! An instant enormous library of music and an almost endless selection to explore. They are mostly at cd quality resolution or some (more and more every day) at high resolution, which do sound better. Quick, easy, good sound and very convenient. For most people, it eliminates the need to purchase the album because whenever you want to hear it, you just go back to Qobuz or Tidal, find it again, and simply press play.


Now, in my experience, if you compare a nice digital rig to a nice analog front end say a good turntable, tonearm, cartridge and a good phono preamp, that is setup correctly, the sound quality of the analog front end will walk all over the digital front end every time. Me personally, I would rather have a $5000.00 analog front end than a $10,000.00 digital setup. The difference in sheer sound quality can be and usually is quite dramatic in favor of the lp. As long as your analog has been dialed in by someone who knows what he or she is doing, and you have records that are in good shape and are clean the lp’s will sound more natural, more relaxed, instrumental timbre will be more accurate, and you will probably be more inclined to listen for many more hours at a time with no listener fatigue whatsoever. Please don’t misunderstand what I am saying. Digital can be great and does some things better than analog. Noise floor can be and usually is quieter, pitch stability can and is usually better. But for pure overall sound quality, I will take analog every time. But that’s just me.

There’s no doubt that lp’s require more physical effort. They clearly take up a lot more real estate having to physically store them so they can be seen at a glance. Static can be an issue. Having to keep them clean, etc. But, there are a lot of people on this very forum (and many others) that will tell you it’s absolutely worth it. Once you hear a great sounding album, on a great analog rig, there’s no going back (for me anyway). There is just something very magical and rewarding about the entire process of spinning vinyl.

Good luck with whatever medium you choose. Take care.

Best regards
Scot
 

chuck

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Dec 19, 2011
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I think vinyl should not be an excuse to ignore most of recorded music. LPs began about 1950, stereo LPs about 1960 and digital supplanted analog recording about 1983. If it is about the music and the artists who create it, then its either both or if choosing just one format, digital seems the obvious choice. What music do you listen to? If you are under 45, practically all new music in your life is digital. To answer the OP question, my $10K vinyl budget would get a Boulder 508 phono pre and shop for a good buy on a turntable/cartridge, a Rega or Technics most likely.
 
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sombunya

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Oct 18, 2012
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I have some records I’ve played that weso quiet I was amazed. I once bought a new sealed disc a while back, played one side and sold it back to the (small indie) record store where I bought it. It was from a huge label and the band is world famous. It was also loaded with artifacts to the point of being nearly unlistenable.

I have about 4 or 5 friends who run small labels. They are very careful about listening to test pressings and some play the same one on different TT’s.
 

Big Dog RJ

Well-Known Member
Feb 2, 2012
1,242
463
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Melbourne
Hi Blaze182

Welcome to the wonderful world of lp’s. As far as I’m concerned, other than reel to reel, there is no better sounding source. For me, the general rule of thumb is digital can sound very good but is really a source of convenience. You get a server, get a nice dac, connect it to your system, get roon and subscribe to Qobuz and/or Tidal and find an album you like or maybe would like to explore some new music and press play. IMHO one of the biggest advantages of any digital setup is the ability to explore new music. If you get Qobuz or Tidal (probably the two most popular subscription based music providers) you have, at your fingertips, over 45 million songs you can listen to at literally the touch of a button, overnight! An instant enormous library of music and an almost endless selection to explore. They are mostly at cd quality resolution or some (more and more every day) at high resolution, which do sound better. Quick, easy, good sound and very convenient. For most people, it eliminates the need to purchase the album because whenever you want to hear it, you just go back to Qobuz or Tidal, find it again, and simply press play.


Now, in my experience, if you compare a nice digital rig to a nice analog front end say a good turntable, tonearm, cartridge and a good phono preamp, that is setup correctly, the sound quality of the analog front end will walk all over the digital front end every time. Me personally, I would rather have a $5000.00 analog front end than a $10,000.00 digital setup. The difference in sheer sound quality can be and usually is quite dramatic in favor of the lp. As long as your analog has been dialed in by someone who knows what he or she is doing, and you have records that are in good shape and are clean the lp’s will sound more natural, more relaxed, instrumental timbre will be more accurate, and you will probably be more inclined to listen for many more hours at a time with no listener fatigue whatsoever. Please don’t misunderstand what I am saying. Digital can be great and does some things better than analog. Noise floor can be and usually is quieter, pitch stability can and is usually better. But for pure overall sound quality, I will take analog every time. But that’s just me.

There’s no doubt that lp’s require more physical effort. They clearly take up a lot more real estate having to physically store them so they can be seen at a glance. Static can be an issue. Having to keep them clean, etc. But, there are a lot of people on this very forum (and many others) that will tell you it’s absolutely worth it. Once you hear a great sounding album, on a great analog rig, there’s no going back (for me anyway). There is just something very magical and rewarding about the entire process of spinning vinyl.

Good luck with whatever medium you choose. Take care.

Best regards
Scot
G'day mate, greetings from down unda...
I hear ya mate!

Been having lots of enjoyable moments with the new Esoteric digital gear but today I thought I'd give digital a rest, and spin some fine vinyl. Oh my! What a nice and wonderful dimension of musicality, as always. Been running a fantastic CJ Phonostage with a Rega RP8 and a matching Benz Micro Glider SM cartridge. When I say matching, I'm referring to the BM Glider's mv output that matches more closely to the CJ's tube phono-preamp, which is a high gain version.

Attn: Blaze 182:
This is very important! In getting that gain structure right. You don't want too low of an output with a low gain on the Phonostage, you won't hear anything. At the same time, you don't want too high of an output with a high gain setting on the Phonostage either, you'll blow the roof off and this is where distortion kicks in...
You need to find the right balance between cartridge and phono output, and get the gain structure perfect. A lot will also depend on your preamp as to be able to control this fine level of detail.

As one other member recommended, you have to get in touch with your nearest TT dealer and visit and demo as many as you can. Across various budgets then you'll get an idea of what this magic is all about, which is actually decades old. It's the technology and materials that have vastly improved but the basic concept of vinyl playback has never changed.

As Scot mentioned about his experience with it, similarly for me, tonight I played 4 LP's, one from Simon & Garfunkel, two from Oregon (distant hills & Oregon in concert) and just now Dave Brubeck's Time Out. Man, there's just some magic in those grooves!

Cheers maties, and enjoy those fine tunes!
Woof, RJ
 

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Big Dog RJ

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Feb 2, 2012
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BTW, Blaze 182,

What did you end up with? Did you go vinyl- analog rig or digital? Haven't heard anything from your end yet... just wondering.

Cheers, RJ
 

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