Analog vs Lampizator

[fas42]

+1

As good as my Lampizator was, you could still tarnish the sound with a garbage transport. Frank, have you ever fiddled with a flash player such as this: http://www.lessloss.com/laminar-streamer-sd-player-p-207.html

No, the closest I've got is an audio friend who uses decent quality media players - very competent sound, but the same "nightmare" that every variation in the use matters - he's done extensive experimenting with carefully organised battery power, and buffering the analogue out with a small tube unit - but still hasn't got it fully tamed ...

My concern with that lessloss unit is that it can't be driven by an external clock, the DAC has to synch to the data stream - this is a weakness IMO, not matter how well the SD player creates the audio data stream; there should be only one clock, but it needs to be sitting in the heart of the DAC, not within the media reader.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Yes, very much so. At a recent audio show a Lampizator setup was sounding "analogue" - meaning, without disturbing distortion artifacts in the sound - when used in the normal fashion, driven by a laptop music server. When the source was switched to an Oppo unit, purely used as transport, classic "digital" unpleasantness was very obvious - everything matters ...

Absolutely agree. I own both and can attest!

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Lite 7 getting some love from Hifi+

Wait till he hears a GG then. I hope they get one to him.

http://www.hifiplus.com/articles/lampizator-lite-7-digital-converter/

 

[wisnon]

+1

As good as my Lampizator was, you could still tarnish the sound with a garbage transport. Frank, have you ever fiddled with a flash player such as this: http://www.lessloss.com/laminar-streamer-sd-player-p-207.html

Drew, when will this thing ever make it to market. I heard about it like TWO years ago and counting.
You know I am partial to SD card playback...

 

[morricab]

I think this new point is true.

That being said, sounding "analogy" is not the desideratum for most people - it is great sound that most are after and that can be attained with either ss or tube. The problem with the argument as put is that it accidentally falsely discriminates against great analog sound being achievable with ss phonos. As you will see in my reply to sbo6, 3 systems that are particularly notorious for sounding wonderful on this forum employ ss phono stages.

For sure top SS phono will never make analog sound digital and for sure good. The best SS phono I know though is the Lyra connoisseur. All of these though cost big bucks. For mid priced analog I don't think SS can compete with a 2 or 3k tube unit.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

For sure top SS phono will never make analog sound digital and for sure good. The best SS phono I know though is the Lyra connoisseur. All of these though cost big bucks. For mid priced analog I don't think SS can compete with a 2 or 3k tube unit.

Each to their own - you are entitled to your opinion.

I disagree with you wholeheartedly that in mid priced analog, ss can't compete with 2 or 3k unit. It is all system synergy, balance and user preference. At the 2 to 3k mark, lots of UK people love the Whest gear - I personally don't but that is not the point. There are others from Nagra (bps) and the Lehmann.

It also appears that Stereophile recommend mainly ss phono stages at that price point for class A phonostages. Looks like it costs quite a lot more to buy tube class A phonostages on the whole.

 

[morricab]

Each to their own - you are entitled to your opinion.

I disagree with you wholeheartedly that in mid priced analog, ss can't compete with 2 or 3k unit. It is all system synergy, balance and user preference. At the 2 to 3k mark, lots of UK people love the Whest gear - I personally don't but that is not the point. There are others from Nagra (bps) and the Lehmann.

It also appears that Stereophile recommend mainly ss phono stages at that price point for class A phonostages. Looks like it costs quite a lot more to buy tube class A phonostages on the whole.

Well, that you are basing anything on the Stereophile list is telling.
I don't know what the Nagra BPS costs but pretty sure it is well above 2-3k. Lehman is not a very good phono stage, sorry.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Well, that you are basing anything on the Stereophile list is telling.
I don't know what the Nagra BPS costs but pretty sure it is well above 2-3k. Lehman is not a very good phono stage, sorry.

You really should just check facts rather than incorrectly posting all the time. Nagra BPS is £1500. Whether you like the Lehmann is immaterial.

I merely cited Stereophile as a point of reference being that there aren't many.

Anyway, please enlighten me as to which 2 to 3k tube phono stage you are recommending.

 

[marty]

Hi,

You need to listen to some great ss phono stages then. Plenty on here with them such as Mike L with the Dartzeel, MadFloyd with the Pass Labs, and Marty with the ASR as a start.

I've never quite understood the fact that many audio components rise quickly in popularity and then suddenly fall out of disfavor for various reasons. The ASR phono stage is one example. Initially praised by HP of TAS, it put ASR on the map many years ago but you don't hear much about their products any more. My guess is that this is because ASR is not widely sold (was it ever?) in the US any longer. Yet, IMHO, it remains a phenomenal piece of gear that continues to perform at an exceptionally high level for me year after year. I think the key, other than an outstanding circuit design, is the battery power supply which makes it a damn quiet piece thus allowing superb resolution with outstanding dynamics. There have been some changes since the original but the biggest change is a newer chip set that I upgraded a few years ago for about 5 bucks. (The US importer dealer wanted $400- whore.) I also had to change the rechargeable Panasonic batteries once for about $70 bucks (they last about 8-10 years). I've seen these used now and then for about $2500 and to my mind, they are the steal of the century. (They replaced ARC Reference and Lamm phono stages in my system). Most of my audiophile friends have heard me say that of all the equipment I own, (Goldmund, Meitner, VTL, Spectral, Pipedreams, MIT, Gotham subs,) I consider the ASR phono stage the finest piece of gear I own. I honestly still believe that. The reason I say that is because my long hobby of audiophilia is governed by the principal of always trying to improve my system by replacing the weakest link when I can afford to do so. Yet, the ASR Basis Exclusive Phono stage is the electronics piece that has now remained in my system the longest, and I have absolutely no desire or compulsion to replace it anytime soon. In fact, as my other gear changes and improves, it just seems to get better and better and goes from strength to strength. An added bonus is that Friedrich Schaefer is a no BS guy that communicates and replies to any email personally and promptly. Bottom line, I just love this product. It is a rare moment in audio when you can satisfy your champagne taste and get there on a beer budget. Kudos to Schaefer. And by the way, if this isn't the sexiest piece of gear on the planet, I don't know what is, but perhaps that's just me. I just love the black transparent plexiglass case where you can see the colored LED"s and circuits behind it. (The LEDs serve as diagnostic devices as Schaefer can tell you instantly what is not working and why if certain LEDs do not come on as expected).

 

[fas42]

My local audio friend has a very basic TT setup, using the Pro-Ject Debut unit - but you wouldn't recognise it, he's essentially ripped it to pieces and rebuilt the thing using the core bits and pieces - and the phono stage is a Musical Fidelity unit, very heavily tweaked, with huge effort going into creating a battery power supply for it. The point being, this setup easily beat the quality of every TT I heard at the last Sydney audio show, except one - and the work he put into the phono stage was a very key ingredient of the sound he achieved.

 

[PeterA]

I think Jim Smith has an ASR amp/preamp, but not the phono. I've heard it is extremely good.

As far as inexpensive SS phonos go, I highly recommend the now discontinued Pass Labs Xono. They can often be found for $1,500 or so. The new Pass XP-15 is also supposed to be very good for around $3,500. I tend to prefer phono stages that are neutral and transparent and do not add much coloration/distortion to the signal. They also have to have sufficient gain with low noise for low output MC cartridges.

 

[Geardaddy]

Drew, when will this thing ever make it to market. I heard about it like TWO years ago and counting.
You know I am partial to SD card playback...

Norman, who knows. Its a little odd. I know he had elaborate plans regarding its fabrication from Panzerholz. He is a clever guy like Lucas and have always been impressed with his angle on audio.

 

[morricab]

You really should just check facts rather than incorrectly posting all the time. Nagra BPS is £1500. Whether you like the Lehmann is immaterial.

I merely cited Stereophile as a point of reference being that there aren't many.

Anyway, please enlighten me as to which 2 to 3k tube phono stage you are recommending.

I posted nothing incorrect. If you would actually read with some comprehension I said I don't know what the price is but based on the pricing of other Nagra products I would have expected it to be much higher than £1500.

Whether you put the Lehmann forward as a good sounding SS preamp is also immaterial by the same logic you are applying to my comments. Same for any comments about sound quality I guess from your POV?

 

[morricab]

You really should just check facts rather than incorrectly posting all the time. Nagra BPS is £1500. Whether you like the Lehmann is immaterial.

I merely cited Stereophile as a point of reference being that there aren't many.

Anyway, please enlighten me as to which 2 to 3k tube phono stage you are recommending.

Allnic H1201
Icon Audio PS1 MKII and at the edge of the range PS3 MKII (street price will for sure get under 3K)
Audio Note M1 and M2 (MM only need step up for MC).
AN Kits L3 phono. A friend has one and it is very good.

 

[bonzo75]

I've never quite understood the fact that many audio components rise quickly in popularity and then suddenly fall out of disfavor for various reasons. The ASR phono stage is one example. Initially praised by HP of TAS, it put ASR on the map many years ago but you don't hear much about their products any more. My guess is that this is because ASR is not widely sold (was it ever?) in the US any longer. Yet, IMHO, it remains a phenomenal piece of gear that continues to perform at an exceptionally high level for me year after year. I think the key, other than an outstanding circuit design, is the battery power supply which makes it a damn quiet piece thus allowing superb resolution with outstanding dynamics. There have been some changes since the original but the biggest change is a newer chip set that I upgraded a few years ago for about 5 bucks. (The US importer dealer wanted $400- whore.) I also had to change the rechargeable Panasonic batteries once for about $70 bucks (they last about 8-10 years). I've seen these used now and then for about $2500 and to my mind, they are the steal of the century. (They replaced ARC Reference and Lamm phono stages in my system). Most of my audiophile friends have heard me say that of all the equipment I own, (Goldmund, Meitner, VTL, Spectral, Pipedreams, MIT, Gotham subs,) I consider the ASR phono stage the finest piece of gear I own. I honestly still believe that. The reason I say that is because my long hobby of audiophilia is governed by the principal of always trying to improve my system by replacing the weakest link when I can afford to do so. Yet, the ASR Basis Exclusive Phono stage is the electronics piece that has now remained in my system the longest, and I have absolutely no desire or compulsion to replace it anytime soon. In fact, as my other gear changes and improves, it just seems to get better and better and goes from strength to strength. An added bonus is that Friedrich Schaefer is a no BS guy that communicates and replies to any email personally and promptly. Bottom line, I just love this product. It is a rare moment in audio when you can satisfy your champagne taste and get there on a beer budget. Kudos to Schaefer. And by the way, if this isn't the sexiest piece of gear on the planet, I don't know what is, but perhaps that's just me. I just love the black transparent plexiglass case where you can see the colored LED"s and circuits behind it. (The LEDs serve as diagnostic devices as Schaefer can tell you instantly what is not working and why if certain LEDs do not come on as expected).

The quality of sound Marty was getting out of a Goldmund Studio and ASR is what convinced me that one does not have to spend on TTs for good sound/

Marty, if you ever get a chance, please check out Thoress (which Mike Lavigne rates as high as any expensive phono including Dart etc, and which is a DHT valve phono costing 7k EUR new). Also please check out NVO Spa II Special Edition, a Greek valve phono. Jeff Day here has a detailed comparo between the ASR basis and the Spa II's older edition. http://www.positive-feedback.com/Issue67/asr_phono.htm

I have not heard either. Still need to find my way around valve and SS phonos, but pricewise ASR, FMA 122, Thoress and NVO Spa II Special Edition seem to be the giant killers, based on whether one has a preference for SS and/or valve

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I posted nothing incorrect. If you would actually read with some comprehension I said I don't know what the price is but based on the pricing of other Nagra products I would have expected it to be much higher than £1500.

Whether you put the Lehmann forward as a good sounding SS preamp is also immaterial by the same logic you are applying to my comments. Same for any comments about sound quality I guess from your POV?

You said that "but pretty sure it is well above 2-3k"

Also more importantly if you read my post, you will see at no point that I have stated that I like Lehmann. I merely pointed out some ss phono stages that UK people like at that price point.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

Allnic H1201
Icon Audio PS1 MKII and at the edge of the range PS3 MKII (street price will for sure get under 3K)
Audio Note M1 and M2 (MM only need step up for MC).
AN Kits L3 phono. A friend has one and it is very good.

Again this is just your opinion. I personally think the sweet spot is the 1500 for Allnic not 1201. 1201 imho is good but I don't see it as better than other ss offerings at the price. I personally do not like Icon audio PS1 or PS3 (not heard the latest version) - found it to have high noise floor and lack resolution. AN kits L3 phono I have not heard but I expect it is MM only and needs a decent SUT to be operational with MC cartridges thus increasing substantially the price of entry.

 

[Audiophile Bill]

I've never quite understood the fact that many audio components rise quickly in popularity and then suddenly fall out of disfavor for various reasons. The ASR phono stage is one example. Initially praised by HP of TAS, it put ASR on the map many years ago but you don't hear much about their products any more. My guess is that this is because ASR is not widely sold (was it ever?) in the US any longer. Yet, IMHO, it remains a phenomenal piece of gear that continues to perform at an exceptionally high level for me year after year. I think the key, other than an outstanding circuit design, is the battery power supply which makes it a damn quiet piece thus allowing superb resolution with outstanding dynamics. There have been some changes since the original but the biggest change is a newer chip set that I upgraded a few years ago for about 5 bucks. (The US importer dealer wanted $400- whore.) I also had to change the rechargeable Panasonic batteries once for about $70 bucks (they last about 8-10 years). I've seen these used now and then for about $2500 and to my mind, they are the steal of the century. (They replaced ARC Reference and Lamm phono stages in my system). Most of my audiophile friends have heard me say that of all the equipment I own, (Goldmund, Meitner, VTL, Spectral, Pipedreams, MIT, Gotham subs,) I consider the ASR phono stage the finest piece of gear I own. I honestly still believe that. The reason I say that is because my long hobby of audiophilia is governed by the principal of always trying to improve my system by replacing the weakest link when I can afford to do so. Yet, the ASR Basis Exclusive Phono stage is the electronics piece that has now remained in my system the longest, and I have absolutely no desire or compulsion to replace it anytime soon. In fact, as my other gear changes and improves, it just seems to get better and better and goes from strength to strength. An added bonus is that Friedrich Schaefer is a no BS guy that communicates and replies to any email personally and promptly. Bottom line, I just love this product. It is a rare moment in audio when you can satisfy your champagne taste and get there on a beer budget. Kudos to Schaefer. And by the way, if this isn't the sexiest piece of gear on the planet, I don't know what is, but perhaps that's just me. I just love the black transparent plexiglass case where you can see the colored LED"s and circuits behind it. (The LEDs serve as diagnostic devices as Schaefer can tell you instantly what is not working and why if certain LEDs do not come on as expected).

Hi Marty,

That is really interesting and I will look seriously into the ASR. Kedar says your system is up there with the best and to say that this phono stage is the one component that stays is amazing. I think you can pick them up for decent money in EU too

 

[microstrip]

I have owned the big ASR Emitter II amplifier with its three power supplies, including batteries for the preamplfier section, and have listened to the ASR phono unit with the battery power supply. It is an excellent phono unit and as the ASR amplifier, represents good value for money, particularly in Europe. How it matches your system and preferences is a different matter.

I currently jump between three phono sections - an Adyton discrete solid state unit with separate power supply and mechanically decoupled amplifying devices , the Audio Research REF2 phono and the phono section of the Atmasphere MP1. The preference is most of the time due to the system I am listening - e.g. the ARC REF2 phono sounds fabulous and impossible to beat with the ARC REF40.

If buying on the used market remember that ASR products are in constant evolution and are being sold for more than two decades without designation changes and current units are quite different from the old units found at very cheap prices. As Marty refers Friedrich Schaefer is a very friendly person, that will promptly answer any mail or inquire about his units - he recently answered my questions about a precise Emitter and send me a link to his buying guide to used ASR equipment. http://asraudio.de/Epdf/IEEMUsed.pdf

Just for audiophile culture I would love to know about the pairing of a Lampizator GG with an ASR Emitter II exclusive ...

 

[bonzo75]

Just for audiophile culture I would love to know about the pairing of a Lampizator GG with an ASR Emitter II exclusive ...

If 10 years later I buy Apogee Grands, I can tell you - Lampi with two ASR Emitter II amps