No lack of warmth re GE 211s. I mean, I keep being told they hold the honour of wooden spoon amongst NOS 211s, but lack of warmth is not anything I'd say about them.
211 valves: please share your experiences
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Have you compared it to either the RCA, Amperex, or UE 211s to determine whether it's warmer?
No, I'm just saying that they don't lack warmth. No comment if they're less or more warm than the others. But even if they're less warm, they're not on any cold or analytical spectrum.
And have you heard these GE 211s?
I haven't heard the GEs, hence why I'm seeking opinions on here.
Good to know they might be an option for what I'm looking for.
Well, in terms of *reasonable* availability and *reasonable* price and *reasonable* warmth, they're the most, ahem, *reasonable* option.
They even sound *reasonable*.
In good amplifier with really good iron GE can be much better than any Amperex in lesser amps...
What I'm trying to get an answer to is whether amp designers really do voice their products around a particular tube.
I believe both Kondo and my amp, Nat, are designed on the basis of the GE 211.
Does this objectively mean another 211, RCA, UE, Amperex, Telefunken RS 237, AN, Mayer Elrog, which may in and of itself be a superior tube to the GE, very possibly *don't* hit the heights more than the GE in the same amp?
Did Thomas Mayer comment on another tubes thread that there are a lot of variables to which brand of tube (in this case 211, but could also apply to 845, 300B etc) sounds best, there's no simplistic Telefunken RS 237 > Amperex > UE > RCA > GE that can be applied to every 211 amp out there, even with perfect matching and correct biasing.
And since one can't get one's money back based on "oh, these Mayer Elrogs *really* don't sound better than my GEs", isn't this one case in audio where "the devil you know", in my case GEs, really does preclude potentially flushing £5-10k away on a failed Amperex etc punt?
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I've heard many 211 amps, and for a variety or reasons have preferred the 845. Not dissimilar matters to resolve. I've used 845 triode amps for the past 25 years, and have run a wide range of 845 labels through them. As with my more limited experience with 211s, no two 845 tubes have sounded alike in any of the 845 amps I've used. Currently, that's a pair of Absolare Altius 845 PSET monoblocks. Change the power tube, change the sound. The most objective power tubes I've heard in my Absolare or prior Audion pair have been Elrog, so that's what I use. But other brands did lend some enjoyable tilts in tonal balance, transient character, bass performance and / or euphonic sound. Tubes in general, and power tubes in particular, in modern, transparent tube amps, resemble fixed-parametric equalizers, sound exciters, etc., in their differences plugged into a given circuit.
211 amps don't escape this. But one reason I like 845 over 211 is that there are more choices in 845 vendors & variants, so a broader sonic palette to choose from.
Phil
211 amps don't escape this. But one reason I like 845 over 211 is that there are more choices in 845 vendors & variants, so a broader sonic palette to choose from.
Phil
And the same Q applies here.
Does the designer of any given 845 amp voice his amp around a particular 845 tube, or are 845 amps all tube "agnostic"?
Ditto 300B, 46 amps etc etc.
Does the designer of any given 845 amp voice his amp around a particular 845 tube, or are 845 amps all tube "agnostic"?
Ditto 300B, 46 amps etc etc.
Is that an enthusiastic endorsement for the Mayer Elrog 211s over the GEs in particular?
I have zero interest in the Psvane after the horror stories reported here regularly.
Does the Mayer Elrog 211 genuinely outperform the GEs across the board, or is it more subtle and nuanced than a straight winner?
I'm wary to go AN 4242, because whatever extra juice AN may get from them, they're still Psvanes at heart.
The reason I don't use my quad of RCAs is the Apogee MRTs say they are blatantly sibilant. For that reason whenever I swap them in, they don't last long.
GEs don't have that affliction. Actually I haven't listened to the GEs in years. Or the RCAs.
I've just spent a while pondering why one of my 211 monos filament supply wasn't working. It turned out to be a failed bridge rectifier so I soldered a new one in. My 211s have been out for months nobody even vaguely local would look at them. So I did it myself.
Now they are back I'm in love all over again. So wildy different from the Luxman and Accuphase options I also have.
I don't know whether people have noticed but there are more RS237s out there than UE. Also, UE varied their construction over time. The UEs are so rare they seem pretty much unobtanium. Which, of course, makes everyone want them. And any claims can be made about how they sound because only a very few will ever have heard them.
I will say that the one UE I did buy was very well made. Beyond RCA and GE but I would say in the same league or maybe a tad better than brass based Amperex.
Confirmed working fixed mono post surgery
Those huge black caps are Siemens 68,000uF affairs used to filter the filament DC post bridge rectifiers. I learnt quite a bit fixing the amp. Pretty enjoyable really.
GEs don't have that affliction. Actually I haven't listened to the GEs in years. Or the RCAs.
I've just spent a while pondering why one of my 211 monos filament supply wasn't working. It turned out to be a failed bridge rectifier so I soldered a new one in. My 211s have been out for months nobody even vaguely local would look at them. So I did it myself.
Now they are back I'm in love all over again. So wildy different from the Luxman and Accuphase options I also have.
I don't know whether people have noticed but there are more RS237s out there than UE. Also, UE varied their construction over time. The UEs are so rare they seem pretty much unobtanium. Which, of course, makes everyone want them. And any claims can be made about how they sound because only a very few will ever have heard them.
I will say that the one UE I did buy was very well made. Beyond RCA and GE but I would say in the same league or maybe a tad better than brass based Amperex.
Confirmed working fixed mono post surgery
Those huge black caps are Siemens 68,000uF affairs used to filter the filament DC post bridge rectifiers. I learnt quite a bit fixing the amp. Pretty enjoyable really.
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My NOS GE VT4C got trumped by the Elrog ER 211 big time. I am not looking back. More bass, a wider and a more precise soundstage. the differences are not subtle but substantial. Thomas Mayer was highly responsive. I ordered the tubes on a Friday and I got them delivered on the next Tuesday.
I don't know whether there's an 845 amp designer who optimizes electrical design for a specific brand of 845 tube, but it happens with some other tube types. Sophia Electric optimizes their amp designs for their tubes, where they have a tube to offer. So does KR. And Shindo designs the WE-300B amp around, specifically, the vintage Western Electric 300B. It doesn't mean other variants can't be successfully used, however.
Whether intended or not, tube amp makers are "voicing" their amps by the choice of tube they ship with an amp. I've never heard a tube amp by anyone of any topology that didn't have its sound altered in some discernible way by tube rolling different brands / constructions / executions of the same tube design. Similarly, if an amp uses output transformers, a xformer design might be in practical terms neutral, but take the same design, wind one example with copper wire and one with silver wire, and they will sound different. Even if a component is designed to be electrically objective wrt its resulting sound, effectively everything is voiced to the designer's preferences, by virtue of what is selected to build the design.
Phil
You've had the Mayer Elrog 211s for a while? No hint of unreliability?
Good to hear they're a serious step up over the GE, I'm veering more to Thomas's tubes than the AN 4242 because of their Psvane lineage.
One last thing, I don't think Thomas is making his Moly plate 242s anytime soon.
I'd love a set of STC 4242 and I could have had a quad by now. That's what the AN/Pavane effort is based on, but I suspect the original is better. I've heard the AN 4242 Mark I would vere to Thomas's rework of the ELROGs but make sure he gives you a decent guarantee.
Somewhere I have a video of a Sibatone amp running STC 4242 at Munich I took years ago. They were a nicely made valve.
Somewhere I have a video of a Sibatone amp running STC 4242 at Munich I took years ago. They were a nicely made valve.
I don't think anyone's guaranteeing tubes for more than 12 months. Anyhow, beyond a little additional foray into Entreq grounding, 100% of my funds are going towards a quad of 211s and spare Straingauge stylii, very possibly Mayer Elrogs, the 242s of he's making them anymore, otherwise the 211s DCC is so enamoured by.
I will say Amperex 211s glow nice. There's something very different about the Amperex filament material that glows much more warmly than the bright white of GEs or RCAs.
I think there's a big clue there. Apart from the really nice supports used in Amperex 211s, I'm guessing what they used for filament wire makes a big difference. Talk to Thomas about filament wire he knows it's important. Had that conversation with him many years ago.
And, yeah, I know. You're all jealous cos of that blue regulator glow. Hey, maybe one day you'll have blue tubes too
Though maybe it's more of a purple haze. You decide... you massive hippy you.
I think there's a big clue there. Apart from the really nice supports used in Amperex 211s, I'm guessing what they used for filament wire makes a big difference. Talk to Thomas about filament wire he knows it's important. Had that conversation with him many years ago.
And, yeah, I know. You're all jealous cos of that blue regulator glow. Hey, maybe one day you'll have blue tubes too
Though maybe it's more of a purple haze. You decide... you massive hippy you.
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