What's wrong with this picture?

[DaveyF]

I am a BIG Mac Fan, so today I am about to update an app on my iPhone, when I see that I get a message that reads: There are changes to the iTunes user agreement and in order to continue, I have to read the Eula and agree to same.
So upon entering the Eula page, I am faced with a 56 page document...all in micro print and all in legalize So, i am expected to read this POS. TOTALLY unreasonable IMHO. Alternatively, I can simply press the agree button and the update will load. ( Or, i can simply throw my iphone in the trash and withdraw from the merry go round...an option, but who really wants to do that?)
So, what to do....well I press the agree button, naturally. BUT who the hell knows what i have agreed to....and PLEASE do not tell me that you guys don't do exactly the same thing.. ( or am I to believe that everyone reads the Eula's....hundreds of pages of legalize in very small print every time you sign up for just about anything these days)

To the several lawyers on this forum, I ask how can this really be considered as reasonable by anyone

Perhaps a four page simple document with the basic aspects of the agreement would be pertinent, or am I being too liberal

Are we really ok as a society allowing companies and their attorney's to do this?

Ok, rant over..

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

They know no one reads these and EVERYONE hits the AGREE button, but I suppose it needs to be there. It doesn't really bother me though.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

Lawyers are a self-fullfilling prophesy. We needed the second one only because of the existence of the first one, which drove the creation of the third one, and so on, until there were more than we would ever need.

We all just push the button. And in court we could probably make a pretty good case that reading the contract was an unreasonable expectation, that the issuer of that contract counted on us not reading it...but that would just require the fourth lawyer.

It's unreasonable. It has been scaled back in some areas like bank disclosures, but not effectively enough. The lawyers multiplied until they are the government, paid by the big businesses that are avoiding litigation through disclosures and agreements. They almost always win. Unless you have a lawyer.

Note: The above rationale regarding the procreation of lawyers comes from my uncle, God rest his soul, a founding partner of his law firm.

Tim

 

[DaveyF]

Tim, I like your Uncle's rationale.
John, the fact that it doesn't really bother you is what makes the problem worse. It won't really bother you ( and it doesn't really bother me either, truth be told...yet) UNTIL some part of what you have unintentionally agreed to is enforced and THAT REALLY BOTHERS YOU.

 

[JackD201]

You'll love the South Park episode about this very topic!

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Davey - True enough. Perhaps one way for them to make it easier on the consumer is to list the EULA and then a separate page (one hopes it would only be a page) on the conditions that were changed.

 

[DaveyF]

Davey - True enough. Perhaps one way for them to make it easier on the consumer is to list the EULA and then a separate page (one hopes it would only be a page) on the conditions that were changed.

John, that would make some sense...which IMO isn't necessarily what these people are looking for. Plus, remember that would also assume that one had read the 100 page micro print Eula in the first place, and therefore would be aware of the other terms and conditions. Just so that there is no confusion, I have no problem with well written and intentioned contracts, just in the way that they are presented.

 

[Gregadd]

I am a BIG Mac Fan, so today I am about to update an app on my iPhone, when I see that I get a message that reads: There are changes to the iTunes user agreement and in order to continue, I have to read the Eula and agree to same.
So upon entering the Eula page, I am faced with a 56 page document...all in micro print and all in legalize So, i am expected to read this POS. TOTALLY unreasonable IMHO. Alternatively, I can simply press the agree button and the update will load. ( Or, i can simply throw my iphone in the trash and withdraw from the merry go round...an option, but who really wants to do that?)
So, what to do....well I press the agree button, naturally. BUT who the hell knows what i have agreed to....and PLEASE do not tell me that you guys don't do exactly the same thing.. ( or am I to believe that everyone reads the Eula's....hundreds of pages of legalize in very small print every time you sign up for just about anything these days)

To the several lawyers on this forum, I ask how can this really be considered as reasonable by anyone

Perhaps a four page simple document with the basic aspects of the agreement would be pertinent, or am I being too liberal

Are we really ok as a society allowing companies and their attorney's to do this?

Ok, rant over..

These are routinely referred to as "adhesion contracts." Even if you did not like it, they would not change it. Regular contracts contemplate the parties hammering out a mutual agreement. They are enforceble unless deemed "unconscionable." (no reasonable person would agree). The problem is busiiness needs to be able to avoid unpredictable costs. Lawsuits are right at the the top of the list. That's why UPS can limit thier liability to $100.00 for loss packages, unless you purchase insurance. Or credit agreements can force you into binding aerbitration. Otherwise they would have to guess what thier potential liability is and charge everyone.
Yes it is wisely abused.
Greg

 

[DaveyF]

Greg,
I presume you meant widely abused vs. wisely abused...

I guess my next question is would any "reasonable" ( whatever that means) person consider these anything BUT unconscionable given the way they are presented