What genre of music is my system best suited for?

[TBone]

tonality shifts, to my ears, remains audio's most common moving target; no two systems ever sound identical, even given the same music/room. Hell, just think of the many adjectives that describe, bright, lean, warm, dark, ... all common tonal attributes to many competing / differently sourced systems. And in retrospect; that's perhaps the real beauty of this hobby, at least why I've loved it so long, considering one can "voice" (hence:change) a system to his/her preferences ...

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

So I've played just about every genre of music I could think of in the last week, plus it included live, studio, acoustic, electric, solo, bands, male, female, instrumental, orchestral (classical & prog), original and audiophile pressings, good recordings and not so good recordings. My room is 11x16' and while I have nothing to show or prove that it is properly setup from a room acoustics point of view, my ears tell me that it is a sufficiently decent listening space.

I concluded that my system can indeed play everything to a very high degree of satisfaction. I did find that on large scale orchestral pieces and no matter what the volume level, the soundstage width is hampered by my room size. And on some rock that needs to play louder than normal to get the true feel of the performance for a better experience, the lack of room volume prevents me from turning up to get there. I can go to about -10dB and then all hell breaks loose it. The sound level becomes unbearable for more than a song or two. These are room issues obviously and not a sign that the system can't handle it.

It was a fun exercise!

 

[Atmasphere]

Ralph, I have to disagree here. I have heard many speakers and systems that can and do reproduce classical very well, but fall down with death metal or RAP.
For example, the Sonus Faber Amati Futura's are very good at classical...but listen to some hard driving metal or RAP on them...well???
I also believe that the room that the system is placed in has a LOT to do with the result. But even with that said, I have heard smaller speakers that sound quite good on classical in a large room, fall down with metal, etc.

If a speaker can't do rap or metal, its not going to do a good job at classical either... All I have to do is play a little Verdi or Wagner and all of a sudden we see that to do classical right you really need dynamic range and low frequency bandwidth! That's pretty much the same thing you need for rap or metal.

Honestly, if a speaker is really good at one particular genre it will be really good at another because it is really good period. If it has weaknesses, any genre will (eventually) expose them. Speakers just don't have any taste of their own, you open them up and there's only wire, electronic parts, drivers and so on in there. No brain. There isn't even a way that a speaker designer could make a speaker work for one genre over another.

As I said before, this is one of the biggest myths in audio, and it is by no means restricted to high end! If you disagree, all that is going on is that you are entertaining the myth, pure and simple. I know I can easily come up with a recording in nearly any genre that will reveal the weakness in a speaker that is said to be good at one genre but not another.

The room of course is important- IMO/IME its about 1/2 of the total system.

 

[Jim Smith]

If a speaker can't do rap or metal, its not going to do a good job at classical either... All I have to do is play a little Verdi or Wagner and all of a sudden we see that to do classical right you really need dynamic range and low frequency bandwidth! That's pretty much the same thing you need for rap or metal.

Honestly, if a speaker is really good at one particular genre it will be really good at another because it is really good period. If it has weaknesses, any genre will (eventually) expose them. Speakers just don't have any taste of their own, you open them up and there's only wire, electronic parts, drivers and so on in there. No brain. There isn't even a way that a speaker designer could make a speaker work for one genre over another.

As I said before, this is one of the biggest myths in audio, and it is by no means restricted to high end! If you disagree, all that is going on is that you are entertaining the myth, pure and simple. I know I can easily come up with a recording in nearly any genre that will reveal the weakness in a speaker that is said to be good at one genre but not another.

The room of course is important- IMO/IME its about 1/2 of the total system.

Agreed 100%!!!

 

[DaveyF]

If a speaker can't do rap or metal, its not going to do a good job at classical either... All I have to do is play a little Verdi or Wagner and all of a sudden we see that to do classical right you really need dynamic range and low frequency bandwidth! That's pretty much the same thing you need for rap or metal.

Honestly, if a speaker is really good at one particular genre it will be really good at another because it is really good period. If it has weaknesses, any genre will (eventually) expose them. Speakers just don't have any taste of their own, you open them up and there's only wire, electronic parts, drivers and so on in there. No brain. There isn't even a way that a speaker designer could make a speaker work for one genre over another.

As I said before, this is one of the biggest myths in audio, and it is by no means restricted to high end! If you disagree, all that is going on is that you are entertaining the myth, pure and simple. I know I can easily come up with a recording in nearly any genre that will reveal the weakness in a speaker that is said to be good at one genre but not another.

The room of course is important- IMO/IME its about 1/2 of the total system.

Ralph, I think we will have to agree to disagree.
My example of the SF Amati Futura is a good example of what I am talking about. Sure, the speaker doesn't know or care what it plays, but I suspect the designer sure knew what it would be strong at. Can the Amati Futura play RAP..of course it can, but you go out and listen to this speaker...and you tell me which genre it is better at reproducing; and by a country mile IMHO.

 

[Purite Audio]

If a speaker can't do rap or metal, its not going to do a good job at classical either... All I have to do is play a little Verdi or Wagner and all of a sudden we see that to do classical right you really need dynamic range and low frequency bandwidth! That's pretty much the same thing you need for rap or metal.

Honestly, if a speaker is really good at one particular genre it will be really good at another because it is really good period. If it has weaknesses, any genre will (eventually) expose them. Speakers just don't have any taste of their own, you open them up and there's only wire, electronic parts, drivers and so on in there. No brain. There isn't even a way that a speaker designer could make a speaker work for one genre over another.

As I said before, this is one of the biggest myths in audio, and it is by no means restricted to high end! If you disagree, all that is going on is that you are entertaining the myth, pure and simple. I know I can easily come up with a recording in nearly any genre that will reveal the weakness in a speaker that is said to be good at one genre but not another.

The room of course is important- IMO/IME its about 1/2 of the total system.

Absolutely spot on.
Keith.

 

[Atmasphere]

Ralph, I think we will have to agree to disagree.
My example of the SF Amati Futura is a good example of what I am talking about. Sure, the speaker doesn't know or care what it plays, but I suspect the designer sure knew what it would be strong at. Can the Amati Futura play RAP..of course it can, but you go out and listen to this speaker...and you tell me which genre it is better at reproducing; and by a country mile IMHO.

I've no problem with agreeing to disagree, however its not because of anything other than I don't actually like arguing.

So I will leave you with a little thought exercise: Come up with a methodology that allows you to design a speaker that works great for one genre of music but not another. Failing that, you can ask an actual speaker designer how that is done and his response will be acceptable.

I suspect that the reason you support this myth is that you simply have not encountered a good recording in the realm wherein the speaker you have in mind seems to shine, in this case classical. When people tell me that rock has more this, more that that somehow a speaker that does classical can't handle, all that its telling me is they've not heard good recordings in the failing genre. In this case I have to assume you've not heard classical recordings with a lot of bass in them. I will suggest a few. My guess is that if this speaker can play classical and not rock, the recordings that I suggest will cause this speaker to fall flat on its face as well. One might come away with the idea that the speaker does not do classical so well either. Ultimately neither is really true- what is actually happening is that the speaker is intended to work in a smaller room and at lower power levels as it was probably designed for a slightly different market than we have here in the US. If you take and try to make the speaker play lifelike levels of any genre of music in a larger (read: American) room, its going to have problems!

Here are some recordings (all on LP, BTW):

RCA/Soria series Verdi Requiem, side 1 track 2. Play at a normal level.
London/Decca Das Reingold, Sir George Solti conducting, side 6.
EMI St. Seans Organ Symphony, Luis Fremeaux cond.
London/Mobile Fidelity The Planets, Sir George Solti cond. side two.
and a favorite of mine- Atma-Sphere Canto General, Mikas Theodroakis and Stephan Skold cond. Los Liberatores

I expect what you would see from any of these is that woofer just flapping around- its not going to deal with the bass energy in these recordings at all. Yet at the same time this speaker would likely make a great monitor in a recording studio.

 

[Detlof]

I'd be careful with this. Geting the timbre, detail and intimacy right on small scale baroque music can in fact be extraordinarily demanding on a system, and few systems are up to the task. it's not just about volume, scale and bass, even though these indeed put their own high demands on systems.

How very true to my experience! From what I have heard so far, ESLs combined with tubed gear come closest, wheras some of audiophilia' s most sacred cows fail miserably' often enough in the sense that a violin may have the size of a Mack truck! I personally love the sound of the second generation Quads together with Jadis amplification. To ovoid the euphonic softening of their preamps ( violins should sound harsh and grating sometimes ) i've chosen the two chassis Atmasperes with the phono board inside. Bliss to my ears.

 

[Detlof]

could argue my system is best suited to silence as my speakers keep breaking down

Get a cat Spaz, you might have mice! ( I have- and not only those cerebral ones - they once chewed up the leads of one of my tone arms, the real ones that is. The other kind does not chew, but makes me think, that Miles is right there in my listening space, while i count the tics and pops of that scratchy old lp, won on Ebay overbidding one of those Chinese milliardairs, as it is spinning very evenly around, the tics and pops just at the right split second, because my tt holds perfect pitch.

 

[Detlof]

If the shows are anything to go by, many high end systems are best suited for a solo guitar or solo female vocalists.

Pardon me while I throw up!

Please allow me to join you in this. We can do it a-capella.......

 

[DaveyF]

I've no problem with agreeing to disagree, however its not because of anything other than I don't actually like arguing.

So I will leave you with a little thought exercise: Come up with a methodology that allows you to design a speaker that works great for one genre of music but not another. Failing that, you can ask an actual speaker designer how that is done and his response will be acceptable.

I suspect that the reason you support this myth is that you simply have not encountered a good recording in the realm wherein the speaker you have in mind seems to shine, in this case classical. When people tell me that rock has more this, more that that somehow a speaker that does classical can't handle, all that its telling me is they've not heard good recordings in the failing genre. In this case I have to assume you've not heard classical recordings with a lot of bass in them. I will suggest a few. My guess is that if this speaker can play classical and not rock, the recordings that I suggest will cause this speaker to fall flat on its face as well. One might come away with the idea that the speaker does not do classical so well either. Ultimately neither is really true- what is actually happening is that the speaker is intended to work in a smaller room and at lower power levels as it was probably designed for a slightly different market than we have here in the US. If you take and try to make the speaker play lifelike levels of any genre of music in a larger (read: American) room, its going to have problems!

Here are some recordings (all on LP, BTW):

RCA/Soria series Verdi Requiem, side 1 track 2. Play at a normal level.
London/Decca Das Reingold, Sir George Solti conducting, side 6.
EMI St. Seans Organ Symphony, Luis Fremeaux cond.
London/Mobile Fidelity The Planets, Sir George Solti cond. side two.
and a favorite of mine- Atma-Sphere Canto General, Mikas Theodroakis and Stephan Skold cond. Los Liberatores

I expect what you would see from any of these is that woofer just flapping around- its not going to deal with the bass energy in these recordings at all. Yet at the same time this speaker would likely make a great monitor in a recording studio.

Ralph,
I really don't have many classical lp's.....certainly none that have well recorded bass?

Uh uh ....that's pretty accurate....?
Ok, so what you are suggesting is that my sf Guarneri hommage's don't do classical....
Like I said, we will have to agree to disagree... So let's leave it at that?

 

[Detlof]

The idea that a system, and in particular loudspeakers, are best suited for a particular type of music is one the biggest myths in the world of audio.

The simple fact is that if the system can do classical right, it can do death metal right. Or jazz or baroque. Classical music has a wide dynamic range and I have seen metal recordings take a system to its knees in a heartbeat, just like some of the best classical. The fact of the matter is that the electronics simply don't have any taste on their own. That's up to you. Some rock recordings are terrible and so are some classical recordings. Another way of looking at this is if your system is mediocre at certain forms of music it will be that way with all forms of music.

I actually had one guy ask me if our amps were better or worse at 80s rock as opposed to 70s rock. Sheesh!

I see it the same way. The reason that I still love my Quads with small ensembles and not with big ones, is simply because of the limitations of this speaker concerning spl in a bigger room. When i got the Sound Labs and played them together with your gear, i was happy with every kind of music I threw at my rig. Often went back to my Quads though, because the presentation of string quartets was sometimes too large for my liking. I did near field listening, did not tweak the room then. Now with the German Physiks, the x-over, a dbx professional unit, also does room correction. Its top end by the way, those famous DDD drivers, four of them per side, still shine with your monos. Also this speaker will play anything at any spl I like, with ease and well below 20 hz, if it is on the software.

 

[Detlof]

my system is most edept at picking at the fragile threads of my sanity.

i have to say id take my lounge over 95% of the gig venues i go to. not got much classical i dont think i have the space for that. its true a lot of gear thats considered great'hifi' over eggs it on solo vocals. they seem to concern them selfs with creating a quite unnatural soundstage that while inpressive is nothing to do with live unamplified music.

it can be hard to get things right when very few are playing together. to realise the interplay between the musicans with no one preformece gate crashing the sceen. i had a rew issues when i switched to balanced power as it increased gain and hurt my systems subtlety.

i am happy now though with the state of things. its about the connection for me and like i said befor i find my system offers that to the point where i often get dissapointed at gigs. though saw john grant at the brighton dome and that poo'd all over his music at my house. in the main the bass was more forward and over all the performance felt alive and real without the normal draw backs of venue acoustics. no super expensive leads and amps etc lol again its a physical space thing too.. i just dont have that. if you find yourself two meters away from a performance with a wall not that far behind you i bet you all wound take your rigs over that sound lol.

if your not able to connect to the music you have in your home then thats a shame if thats because your obsessed about it being 'perfect' thats truely tragic. i am pleased to say i am off that wheel of disscontent.

my system offers me emotional connection with a very wide range of music. its a deal that relies on me being open, the onus is on the listener not the system of playback imo.

Spaz, that the onus is on the listener is an absolute truth for me. Happy, that you state this so clearly. If you are in an anus mode, at home or at a gig, the music will sound likewise to you. I have a friend who is wont to say that if my rig sounds shitty to me, I have to inbibe two glasses of red to make it sound right again.

What do you mean by " balanced power " ?
Did you install an Equi-tech?

 

[Detlof]

perfection is the destroyer of the soul both in its pursuit and its finding

that is one of the most beautiful statements which I have read from you so far.
Thank you.

 

[NorthStar]

The size and the acoustics of our rooms will suit some music genre better than others, and they will also dictate their right matching pair of loudspeakers.
...No doubt about what I believe.

The larger the room the more suited for large speakers and full orchestral music (symphonies of grand scale, ballets, operas, ...).
The smaller the room the more intimate the classical chamber music (quartets) for the proper given size of speakers.

Sure, we can play disco music (electronica with synthesizer with 5Hz content), or organ music with the biggest pipes with energy in the 8 to 16Hz presence region and with authority and cleanness, and in a small room (11.5' by 10' by 7.5') it would be different than in a large one the size of a discotheque with thirty-six subwoofers @ a 24" driver diameter (diag) each, or a room with a ceiling forty-two feet high and 67' long by 49.5' wide.

A full orchestra has wide dynamics and high power when play @ full steam from hundred and seventy-six (176) musicians on stage.
...Or a trio jazz (acoustic bass player, drummer and trumpet player) in an intimate jazz club the size of a living room.
No amplified music from the two examples above...all acoustic.

A guy like Tim here (Phelonious Ponk), with near-field active monitors has his own music preference for his setup.
A guy like Jack or Mike or Jim or Steve or David or ... on the other hand have a wider choice of music genre in their arsenal that they can accommodate equally well.

There is logical sense in space where sounds harmoniously blend.

My cubic feet music listening room and speakers cannot convey the full impact of organ and choirs inside a cathedral. ...And neither the full classical opera orchestral power of a grand ballroom hall from Vienna. But that's the music I like among other genre. ...I just need bigger speakers, more power, more Watts, more subwoofers, bigger room, bigger house, bigger paycheck, better job, higher class lifestyle.

So, I play classical chamber music, jazz, blues and Adele. ...And I go out to discotheques, to church, to planetariums, to IMAX theaters, to concert halls and to open-air music concerts. ...Woodstock style.

Merry Christmas! ...Our first snowfall this morning. :b

 

[NorthStar]

I have read many posts in this thread; "if a speaker cannot do RAP music well it won't do classical music either".

I have a pair of small speakers; they play beautifully vocal female jazz singers. The woofer is a 4.5" size, and the dome tweeter is a 1" soft silk dome.
The other day I put a Reference Recordings from Keith Johnson (classical orchestral by Fennell • DWS • Riedo - Pomp & Pipes! - RR-58CD), and crank up my 25-watts per channel integrated amplifier that power those speakers. It was like being there @ the recording venue, but in a miniaturization from my gear in my room.
Those speakers can play disco music, sex electronica for subs buffs cars, RAP, Super Heavy Duty Metal, or soft listening with Burt Bacharach, Art Pepper, Patricia Barber, Sonny Rollins, Bill Evans, Keith Jarrett, Adele, ...full orchestral works with equal aplomb all across the full spectrum music range and beautifully too.
But after 25 Watts RMS (40 into 4 Ohm loads), it is missing some essence that live music doesn't. Also, the soundstage is rather small. ...And I can hear constipation on the the macro dynamics.

Yes, my small speakers they excell @ all music genres, including RAP music, but without the multiple larger subwoofers (18 to 24" drivers), and powered by multiple amps totaling 200,000 real RMS Watts.

Can you see my point? :b

? Futhermore, I truly believe that to fully preserve and divulge with accurate reproduction the sound of a grand piano, a tenor saxophone, an alto trumpet, a cello, a violincello, a violin, a timpani, ...there are better drivers inside some well designed speaker enclosures that'll do a much better job than most others. I am from the school of thought...that for a given musical instrument there is a driver/set of drivers that are the best match for the reproductive audio job.

An electrical/mechanical loudspeaker is a musical instrument in a real sense. You pick your instrument you play your tunes your musical inspiration style. Some are better suited @ RAP music high fidelity reproduction, others @ blues & jazz, and classical and rock and roll.

Yes they can play them all. But no way with the best integration from the real deal.

Yes, I have read several posts from this thread, and none was thrown to my throat.