Turntable Isolation

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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#1
I assume everyone believes in isolating their turntable from vibrations be they of the structural, airborne or self generated variety.

What's everyone using out there? Vibraplanes, different types of isolation bases, cones, pucks, combos, etc. What's been your experience with your turntable with these different isolation products?
 

FrantzM

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Apr 20, 2010
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#2
I used a Vibraplane under my now-defunct TT and CD transport. I acquired 2 from a lab that was closing, at dirt cheap price, I was in heaven until I had to ship them ... The cost was not trivial ...much more than I anticipate to crate them and ship them a major and frustrating issue. They are phenomenal. The differences was truly "night and day". Take the TT of the Vibraplane and smack! for anyone including tin-ears .. blind .. It was clear. The most interesting thing about the active Vibraplanne was how they took care of airborne vibrations. If one is not using an active system under a TT the best place for a TT seems to be in an isolated room. Airborne vibrations are difficult to deal with passively, one can construct the TT to be a real sink but the transducer, The cartridge , responds to vibration, that what you need it to do and those coming via the air , it will picik them up too. IMO just like several Japanese Audiophiles do, isolate the TT in another room , if possible. I have not seen people do that very much in the USA ..

Frantz

P.S. FWIW, I am off the Analog train, my late TT will not be replaced
 

soundofvoid

WBF Founding Member
Apr 22, 2010
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Athens/Greece
#4
Unfortunately I cannot spare another room for my turntable.The rest of the family needs their space too!
I ended up using spiked "feet" under my turntable that sink into cups made from a different metal (iron/aluminum).
Underside the cups is a 3mm thick sheet of silicone.The whole turntable rig is on a 3cm granite platform weighing about
20 kilos.And between the granite and my rack's self is a 8mm thick neoprene layer (found in camping stores).
Regarding the airborne vibrations i plan to try a thick (1 cm) plexiglass cover with lots of holes cut onto it.
A friend who is a mechanic said that it might work-kinda like creating a golf ball surface.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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#5
I used a Vibraplane under my now-defunct TT and CD transport. I acquired 2 from a lab that was closing, at dirt cheap price, I was in heaven until I had to ship them ... The cost was not trivial ...much more than I anticipate to crate them and ship them a major and frustrating issue. They are phenomenal. The differences was truly "night and day". Take the TT of the Vibraplane and smack! for anyone including tin-ears .. blind .. It was clear. The most interesting thing about the active Vibraplanne was how they took care of airborne vibrations. If one is not using an active system under a TT the best place for a TT seems to be in an isolated room. Airborne vibrations are difficult to deal with passively, one can construct the TT to be a real sink but the transducer, The cartridge , responds to vibration, that what you need it to do and those coming via the air , it will picik them up too. IMO just like several Japanese Audiophiles do, isolate the TT in another room , if possible. I have not seen people do that very much in the USA ..

Frantz

P.S. FWIW, I am off the Analog train, my late TT will not be replaced
Two excellent points Frantz. Isolating the table in another room is great all things being equal eg. the IC length isn't exorbitantly long. And with the price of some of the top of the line cables, this could cost a fortune :)

I played around with Vibraplanes under microscopes years ago. We had this humongous four canister version with a 1 ton platform. That was awesome - but whose floor will support that :) I actually tried when I wrote for TAS obtaining a VP for review. I spoke with my rep but the President of the company blew me off. Then Steve Klein picked the line up. Guess the Pres finally realized he better diversify his product orientation :)
 

FrantzM

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Apr 20, 2010
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#6
Myles
That is where Those fancy Phono Preamps would come in action... .. so one would use a good phono Stage and link to the Preamp or integrated with a good cable, ( I know, I know) , it could be an integrated without a phono stage. For the record , I am no longer a great believer .. Lost that belief once I subjected to a slight amount of rigorous testing and came not able to distinguish betwen cables I swore afew hours before were the best I've heard ... a year or so ago... been believing in Cables since I heard What the Fulton Brown in my father's system when I was 18 years old ...late 70's
Just FYI people, they pop up regularly on e-Bay at more than decent price for the performance level they bring to ANY TT, see THIS. Be forewarned: shipping these items in NOT trivial ...

Frantz
 

JackD201

[WBF Founding Member]
Apr 21, 2010
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Manila, Philippines
#7
Custom Critical Mass Systems QXK Black Platinum



It took 3 hours to set up and level all 200 lbs of it but I'd say it was worth it :)
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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#8
Custom Critical Mass Systems QXK Black Platinum



It took 3 hours to set up and level all 200 lbs of it but I'd say it was worth it :)
Nice :) What do you think about their new CM isolation products?

What cartridges are you using in the Graham's in the picture?
 

JackD201

[WBF Founding Member]
Apr 21, 2010
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Manila, Philippines
#9
Hi Myles,

They don't have the acrylic zing of the GPAs and don't have the murk I associate with medium and hard woods. I think Jason Victor and David put what they do into words better than I can. Suffice it to say I agree with them pretty much totally.

Shown in the pics are a DRT XV-1t run into the MC input with the Urushi body and a Koetsu Jade Platinum run through a Koetsu Step Up into the Lamm MM input.

Jack
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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#10
Hi Myles,

They don't have the acrylic zing of the GPAs and don't have the murk I associate with medium and hard woods. I think Jason Victor and David put what they do into words better than I can. Suffice it to say I agree with them pretty much totally.

Shown in the pics are a DRT XV-1t run into the MC input with the Urushi body and a Koetsu Jade Platinum run through a Koetsu Step Up into the Lamm MM input.

Jack
Hot stuff! Heard the Dynavector at CES in the Red Point tt and thought that it tracked like a Mutha....f... It tracked bells on one of my lps like no other cartridge I've heard. Did you have the 1-S before?
 

JackD201

[WBF Founding Member]
Apr 21, 2010
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#11
Yup and still do. Poor guy got relegated to its box. The XV-1t does everything the 1s did well but with more body. Extension up top favors the t very slightly and I mean very in refinement. Much more bottom end extension though. The cart in my collection that gives it a run for its money is the M.Y. Sonic Labs Ultra Eminent BC. It has almost as expansive a stage but better scale in terms of performer sizes. Soloists aren't enlarged as much. It competes favorably dynamically but is drier sounding and has less emotion. The 1t gets more playing time though. I find I favor the BC only on Ballets. I have an A90 still in its box. Serial Number 0046. Got it months ago even before MF published his review. Lots of hype but I'm enjoying the 1t so much I don't want to unmount it. I'm just waiting for another wand from my dealer so I can press the A90 into service without disrupting my bliss.

You're right though. Dynavector DRTs on Grahams really do track like mutha f*****s. My torture test is the Philips pressing of Stanislav Richter playing Liszt's Piano Concerto No.1. There's some serious synergy going on there. The Koetsu with its low compliance seems to like the Triplanar better. It's a bit loose and mushy on the Phantom by comparison.
 

jadis

Active Member
Apr 28, 2010
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Manila, Philippines
#12
My friend Bruce does that with his Denon TT (and CD player), and he's not even Japanese.
I have seen, and heard, only one such system here in Manila and that was because the owner's TT had no isolation system and the table was picking up all sorts of vibrations from the room and into the arm and the cart. But boy, looking at him running in and out from one room to another made me tired.:D
 
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es347

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Midwest fly over state..
#14
I didn't realize that Mutha....f... 's were known for their tracking ability.
 

mep

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Apr 21, 2010
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#15
I have a VPI TNT mounted on the VPI TNT stand with the legs filled with lead shot. My listening room has a concrete floor under the super thick pad and carpet. I could probably have some elephants fornicating in my room and still not have foot-fall problems. I don't feel any need to have any additional isolation from what I have already achieved. My setup is VERY stable over time and does not come out of level. And with an ET-2 tonearm, you would know in a heartbeat if your system became out of level. I just smile and play music (or play music and smile).

Mark
 

jadis

Active Member
Apr 28, 2010
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Manila, Philippines
#16
I have a VPI TNT mounted on the VPI TNT stand with the legs filled with lead shot. My listening room has a concrete floor under the super thick pad and carpet. I could probably have some elephants fornicating in my room and still not have foot-fall problems. I don't feel any need to have any additional isolation from what I have already achieved. My setup is VERY stable over time and does not come out of level. And with an ET-2 tonearm, you would know in a heartbeat if your system became out of level. I just smile and play music (or play music and smile).

Mark
Hey, a fellow ET2 tonearm user. Cool! You're right, the arm is the level, as Bruce Thigpen said. My present TT is a VPI HW19 MKII which I got brand new in the late 80s. I like its design, with isolated plinth and a tall dustcover. I once substituted threaded 'tiptoes' for the stock rubber feet of VPI but while the sound greatly improved in terms of focus and rock tight bass, the midrange (voice specially) became lean and cold. So back to the original rubber feet I went. The TT is resting on a granite slab, which in turn rests on inverted tiptoes of 4 sand filled pipes whose feet are also 'tiptoed' to my carpeted concrete floor.
 

kach22i

WBF Founding Member
#17
For anyone with hard floors these isolators from the hardware store doubled up (locked together) work pretty good for about $2.50 each. For $15 I isolated my dedicated turntable stand. I think it's better to isolate the stand and it's mass than to try and float the turntable by it's self. At least with a lighter weight TT like mine.




I got the idea from reading and looking at the Mapleshade mailing booklet.

http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/isoblocks.php

"I just tried your Isoblocks under a maple platform holding my Rega P25 and all I can say is what an amazing improvement. I was originally using Vibrapods for isolation and they worked OK, but these Isoblock are really something special...Everything seems in better focus with a greater sense of ease and transparency. Thanks Mapleshade for making a great product so affordable!" - Sebastian R.
 

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nsgarch

New Member
Apr 21, 2010
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#18
Turntables are why wall shelves were invented.
 
#19
air is the best

go to toysRus and 2 paks of water toys that contain 2 arm floaties each. inflate and place a mdf board (cut to size) under the tt and on top of the floaties. adjust the air in each for levelness. a bullet level used in the two planes-fore and aft, left and right.

if you just can't stand the beautiful looks of the floaties, construct an inverted box that wont touch the cabinet to place over the floaties instead of the board alone. put veneer on it and its done.

the table no longer hears the cabinet! its cheap and it works.

...regards...tr
 

Wardsweb

New Member
May 8, 2010
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San Antonio, TX
wardswebllc.com
#20
The first thing to do is determine what is your problem. That will determine if you really want isolation or dampening. There a different schools of thought on how to achieve these from truely isolating to direct coupling. How your table is engineered will also determine what will help it. It isn't as simple as buying a slab of stone or a wall shelf. There are reasons some work better than others and knowing your system and the systemic problem(s) will help you achieve better results. With better information come better decisions. Now you know why you needed to pay attention in physics and fluid dynamics class.

When I had a bad rumble problem with an old Rega Planar 3 after adding a high output cartridge I decided to dampen the table. Take the motor induced vibration and disipate it in sand. Turn the mechanical energy into electrical energy in the form of heat.

I built this sand box. By itself glass sucks as a material, but what makes it bad by itself works great for transfering the table energy into the sand or in my case, glass beads finer than sand. No more rumble.