The mess that is Apple Maps...Rome ins in China!

[amirm]

I thought it was bad but this bad??? Astonishing how little they tested this app before releasing it. The darn thing doesn't even show their own stores right!

http://www.tomshardware.com/picturestory/607-ios-maps-fail.html

Click on the picture to advance to the next one in the slideshow.

 

[DaveyF]

Amir, we all know that you used to work for Microsoft, BUT this is getting a little nuts. If I was to start with the numerous failings and errors that the various Windows systems have had over the years it would take up pages and pages. If you truly believe that all of the people who line up outside the Apple stores for the various new products from Apple, are doing so because they are flawed products, all I can say is

 

[amirm]

A fun article on mistakes in Apple's map from a leading online publication is nuts? What's nuts? It is a device. Where is the emotional need coming from to defend it this way?

As to me working for Microsoft, do you really want to go there? I am typing this on Google Chrome and have repeatedly said people should use it over IE. I have used Android as my main phone for years. Never seen me advocate Microsoft phone OS. I have no desire to upgrade to Windows 8. And while I may get Microsoft Surface just to be able to compare it to my iPad and Android tablets, I am not seeing it having a good future from where I sit.

You don't know me well if you think I have emotional attachment to such things. I don't. My loyalty is to what works. if something doesn't work, I am going to be critical of it. If there is one thing I have fought for 30 years in my professional career, it was a religion for certain OS, hardware, etc. It is all bits and bytes and every 10 years it changes. So it pays to stick to objective things, and not emotional aspects.

But by all means, if you think there is interest in people reading about what is wrong with Windows, create a thread and talk about it. I created one on what is wrong with OLED displays on the newest Android phones such as Samsung SIII and Motorola M. There is more room for people to be critical .

 

[DaveyF]

A fun article on mistakes in Apple's map from a leading online publication is nuts? What's nuts? It is a device. Where is the emotional need coming from to defend it this way?

As to me working for Microsoft, do you really want to go there? I am typing this on Google Chrome and have repeatedly said people should use it over IE. I have used Android as my main phone for years. Never seen me advocate Microsoft phone OS. I have no desire to upgrade to Windows 8. And while I may get Microsoft Surface just to be able to compare it to my iPad and Android tablets, I am not seeing it having a good future from where I sit.

You don't know me well if you think I have emotional attachment to such things. I don't. My loyalty is to what works. if something doesn't work, I am going to be critical of it. If there is one thing I have fought for 30 years in my professional career, it was a religion for certain OS, hardware, etc. It is all bits and bytes and every 10 years it changes. So it pays to stick to objective things, and not emotional aspects.

But by all means, if you think there is interest in people reading about what is wrong with Windows, create a thread and talk about it. I created one on what is wrong with OLED displays on the newest Android phones such as Samsung SIII and Motorola M. There is more room for people to be critical .

Amir, this is not the first thread that you have started regarding Apple...The thread " Proof that Samsung did NOT copy Apple", "Samsung loses patent suit to Apple", "Great Tech Roundtable on problems of iPhone 5", " What have we created" to name a few. It's pretty obvious, at least to me, that you have a thing against Apple...that's ok;but coming from your Microsoft background, I hope you can see that you are appearing a little 'biased' , at least IMO. Just FYI, I'm not defending the Apple products ( well maybe a little bit)...I don't have any stock in the company ( I really wish I did though). Why don't we leave it at this: you like Microsoft and their OS, I like Apple and their products.... a clear case of YMMV.

 

[Keith_W]

I think that Amir has been very fair and balanced in his view. Android, Apple, and Microsoft all have failings. When Android has a failing, Amir unflinchingly calls them out on it. I can see why he is a moderator. He has my respect.

(edit) Amir himself didn't bring up this point, so I will. In some circles, Amir is better known for writing the first smartphone app for the Stoker BBQ controller. The iPhone version has been out for ages, with no Android version. I meant to ask at some point ... have you finished the Android version yet, Amir?

 

[ack]

Amir, we all know that you used to work for Microsoft, BUT this is getting a little nuts. If I was to start with the numerous failings and errors that the various Windows systems have had over the years it would take up pages and pages. If you truly believe that all of the people who line up outside the Apple stores for the various new products from Apple, are doing so because they are flawed products, all I can say is

In this industry, we all know Microsoft has been the biggest, unimaginative, copycat bully, with MSFT trolls supporting/pushing its products all over the internet. However, it won't do to start on it all over again; instead, let's just stay with current products and trends. And the fact of the matter is that this Apple Maps thing is repulsive. We will soon have the opportunity to bash MSFT and the new Phone 8, if we want to. I think Amir is balanced, and where we think he's not - i.e. the look and feel of Apple's stores - we call him on it Frankly, so what if Apple's stores are lavish and aim to make one feel welcome to come buy its products, as if there aren't plenty of such other retail stores all over the world - I just wish all audio dealers were like that too.

Just enjoy the fact that iPhone is as big as MSFT, and I believe they sell more iPads than iPhones.

 

[Phelonious Ponk]

So it pays to stick to objective things, and not emotional aspects.

It does. Unless you're marketing products, or more importantly, services, or most importantly, a customer experience that crosses the line. Google seems to get this to a point. MS never even seemed to have gotten the scent of it.

Tim

 

[amirm]

Amir, this is not the first thread that you have started regarding Apple...The thread " Proof that Samsung did NOT copy Apple",

Did you click on that thread? Because if you had, you would notice that it was a comedy piece ridiculing Samsung's claim that it did not copy Apple. It could not be more pro Apple. Here it is again:

"Samsung loses patent suit to Apple", "Great Tech Roundtable on problems of iPhone 5", " What have we created" to name a few.

I also post a video on Google innovation on using "Morse code" for typing into smartphones. You are seeing these posts because I found a great article that had a collection of the funniest tech videos online. I am so surprised that the sarcasm and funniness in them is so hard to get.

It's pretty obvious, at least to me, that you have a thing against Apple...that's ok;but coming from your Microsoft background, I hope you can see that you are appearing a little 'biased' , at least IMO.

Let's say it is obvious. Then what? This is a discussion forum. We are here to discuss differing views. If I have Wilson speakers and always had, you don't want to hear about my views of Wilson speakers? We are all biased. We really are. You can't be vocal in a forum and not be biased.

But answering your point anyway, I am uniquely situated. I built products that did compete one for one with Apple. I saw the brilliance when they beat us on merit, and I saw the tactics when not playing fair. When I first joined Microsoft back in 1990s, MPEG put out a call for proposals for a new audio/video format. We had one that we were giving away already so we sent a couple of our guys to propose it. You know what happened? We lost to Apple and their proposal of using Quicktime file format. Do you want to know how we lost? The discussions went on 'till 2:00am in the morning. I am not kidding. It went on past midnight. By then just about every company had left other than Apple and another company which couldn't stand Microsoft: Oracle. Then they ask for a vote and we get out voted due to that. Clearly this was a cooked process. You don't wait for everyone to leave and then take a vote when you have prearranged to have others stay with you. It gets worse. There is an immediate press release with Jobs claiming MPEG had blessed Apple. That never happens. It is bad protocol to do that when standards groups select your technology. You let them make the announcement.

Then there was our competition with iMovie. We took a feature from Microsoft Research that took a bunch of photos and fit a song to them as it panned across the images, creating a movie of them. Apple did not have that so we immediately started to win reviews given how useful this was. Next release they go ahead and copy the same feature, go and give 3 macs to Ken Burns and call this the Ken Burns effect. Great job of marketing. Lousy job of copying us. Needless to say, the press gave them all the kudos given the catchy marketing. But copying was done.

So no, I can't "love" apple the way some of you do. I have these and many other direct experiences that I can't even share with you. So my decision to like an Apple product must be based on merits. I use mapping function in my phone more than anything but email. It is one of the most useful features of a smartphone to me. I did not get navigation for my son's car since he could use his phone. I have navigation in my car and is a very good one but it does not hold a candle to Google maps. When I was taking pictures of the farmland in eastern Washington, my car navigation would give up but Google would happily track these tiny farm roads. Without them we would be completely lost. Knowing what I know, Apple put priority for controlling the ecosystem of advertising ahead of its customer needs in this regard. And that's fine if they could test the stuff and put a proper product. But how can you not test a phone at a store you sell it at to make sure it shows its location correctly? How much haste must you have to not test it well? So no free pass from me.

Just FYI, I'm not defending the Apple products ( well maybe a little bit)...I don't have any stock in the company ( I really wish I did though). Why don't we leave it at this: you like Microsoft and their OS, I like Apple and their products.... a clear case of YMMV.

The only OS I "liked" was Unix which ironically is at the heart of Mac OS. Steve jobs brought that with him from Next. I have written a book on it if you don't believe it: http://www.amazon.com/Optimizing-UN...TF8&qid=1350489620&sr=8-2&keywords=majidimehr. Unix has become Linux which is the direct competitor to Microsoft in server and appliance worlds. It also powers Android. So please don't paint me with these broad brushes. I know what I know at a deep level because it was my job to know these things. And you do come across as completely and emotionally in love with Apple. I don't blame you for that. But please don't blame me for posting things I collect online that I think are informative of fun on this new chapter of computing which is dominating our lives. I am not trying to convert you to anything .

 

[DaveyF]

But please don't blame me for posting things I collect online that I think are informative of fun on this new chapter of computing which is dominating our lives. I am not trying to convert you to anything .

Amir, I don't blame you for posting anything you happen to like. What I said is that you appear to have a bias against Apple, which is your right to have. Your experience with Apple has clearly left you with a bad taste in your mouth. My experience with MS ( and from the looks of it, Tim's also) has left a bad taste in our mouth. I suspect that IF we took a poll as to how many people had/have a bad experience with MS vs with Apple, I suspect I would know the outcome. I'm coming from the customer side of the equation, you are coming from the industry side.
Sure, the current mapping function has issues, BUT I'm pretty certain that Apple is going to work that out and it will happen soon. OTOH, look at what MS did with their Vista customers! IMHO, MS has never had and still doesn't have a clue as to how to treat their customers and I believe that is showing up at the till.
I think on this one, we will have to agree to disagree

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

The video is blocked. Anywhere else I might be able to view it?

 

[amirm]

The video is blocked. Anywhere else I might be able to view it?

Try one of these other versions: http://www.youtube.com/results?sear...282.1837.2j7j3.12.0...0.0...1ac.1.MjlbWzZjxOI

 

[amirm]

Amir, I don't blame you for posting anything you happen to like. What I said is that you appear to have a bias against Apple, which is your right to have. Your experience with Apple has clearly left you with a bad taste in your mouth.

No, as I said, I don't live by religion that could be rooted in bad mouth experiences. I live by data. And I have data that is personal and goes across decades. My first programming experience back in 1978 was on a Apple II. It was that wonderful experience that moved me away from hardware design to software. The decades of actual work and knowledge of technology has formed my opinions of apples based strictly on what they do right and what they don't. I know how hard it is to do certain things and when it is not. I have also spent my share of time in patent litigation so have decent understanding of those issues. My company has currently standardized on a control system that uses Apple technology inside: http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?6590-Introduction-to-Home-Automation. We picked that on merits and nothing about my experience with Apple got in the way of picking that system over others. In my opinion, the worst thing you can do in business is make emotional decisions. So I am not moved by that in matters related to technology.

My experience with MS ( and from the looks of it, Tim's also) has left a bad taste in our mouth. I suspect that IF we took a poll as to how many people had/have a bad experience with MS vs with Apple, I suspect I would know the outcome.

That's OK. We are not discussing you. You are discussing me . And saying that there has to be a limit to how much negative posts there are against Apple here. And to justify that, you mention that I used to work for Microsoft. Well, considering that I no longer work at Microsoft, doesn't it reason that I am not in agreement with everything they do or I would still be working there???

I'm coming from the customer side of the equation, you are coming from the industry side. Sure, the current mapping function has issues, BUT I'm pretty certain that Apple is going to work that out and it will happen soon.

Why are you sure? And for what reason are you OK with that right now? They took a world class mapping function that they had a contract to keep using for another year and gave you a bad experience. And your unhappiness is that too many articles come out on that? Why not be outraged about what Apple has done?

I mean think about it. Google put people in cars to go drive around and take pictures. I read that they just went to some remote place in Alaska with a population of tens of people! When I went to visit Steve for the first time, I was shocked that once I got in front of his house, the map changed to a picture of his house! No mapping function had done that. That was impressive. Google has shown leadership here. Instead of praising that, we are praising Apple.

OTOH, look at what MS did with their Vista customers! IMHO, MS has never had and still doesn't have a clue as to how to treat their customers and I believe that is showing up at the till.
I think on this one, we will have to agree to disagree

No, on this we have to call it what it is: off-topic. Microsoft has nothing to do with anything in this thread. Apple created a bad experience. A company known for good experiences, did the opposite. A company loved by its customers like no other, put the customer love secondary to business objectives. Microsoft played no role in any of this whatsoever. The fact that Apple customers can look away and defend them on such occasion is really hard for me to understand. Even harder is to complain about me, when I linked you to an article by a major site who had created the meat of this thread is about. It is an emotional need to defend a loved one even when they make a mistake. I get that when it comes to people. But not to public companies in the business of making money.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

Apple created a bad experience. A company known for good experiences, did the opposite. A company loved by its customers like no other, put the customer love secondary to business objectives.

This!

 

[ack]

The only OS I "liked" was Unix which ironically is at the heart of Mac OS. Steve jobs brought that with him from Next. I have written a book on it if you don't believe it: http://www.amazon.com/Optimizing-UN...TF8&qid=1350489620&sr=8-2&keywords=majidimehr

Now you are talking my language