REL No. 31 and other REL subwoofers: fuses and power cords?

[engadin]

I am still in the beginnings of integrating my new No. 31 into my system.
No corner placement, as there is only a brick wall to the side, rear wall is the sloping roof.
A XTZ kit for room response inluding a microphone isn’t that much help for set up, just a control.

An aging and previously unused NBS monitor 1 power cord massively changed the sound compared to the REL-supplied pc.

When I have my homework with set up done:
What are your experiences with and recommendations for an appropriate pc?
Same with the fuse, 7A MT. Would the not so expensive SR blue or orange or QSA yellow fuse be good enough? Your experience and recommendations?

 

[bryans]

Congrats on the Rel 31. It's an awesome sub in my opinion.

I have not tried any fuses so I can't comment on those. I did change my power cord to a Diamond Xtreme from Underwood HiFi (https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/valiant). I had an extra one lying around and it seems to work well.

My advice is try to get your hands on some power cords and see which ones you like better. Chances are you might like your current NBS power cord the best.

 

[engadin]

A friend had tried several pcs for subs and said best results come with solid core cables with subs.
NBS is to the best of my knowledge solid core.
He recommended a Chinese made 12 core silver clad copper cable, which I am fighting to put plugs on…

 

[Al M.]

I have great experiences with ZenWave Clear Bass power cables by WBF member DaveC on my subs:

Clear Bass Cables – Zenwave Audio: the ultimate high-end audio cables

zenwaveaudio.com

They sound very precise and pricing is eminently reasonable. DaveC will send you demo cables upon request, no guessing game about sound quality required.

 

[John T]

Several of you have reached out for pics of the REL 6 pack array. Sorry for the late post. Catching up after these knee replacement surgeries...Here you go...John

 

[M-dB]

I am still in the beginnings of integrating my new No. 31 into my system.
No corner placement, as there is only a brick wall to the side, rear wall is the sloping roof.
A XTZ kit for room response inluding a microphone isn’t that much help for set up, just a control.

An aging and previously unused NBS monitor 1 power cord massively changed the sound compared to the REL-supplied pc.

When I have my homework with set up done:
What are your experiences with and recommendations for an appropriate pc?
Same with the fuse, 7A MT. Would the not so expensive SR blue or orange or QSA yellow fuse be good enough? Your experience and recommendations?

I found a $9K REL Studio III Sub-Bass speaker quite forgiving to room placement. Its -6dB manufacturers rated low frequency response lacks the measurable sub sonic low frequency output of an actual subwoofer and simply didn't excite the rooms standing wave bass modes. The manufacturer suggested corner placement was by far the worst location in my room.

Despite newer drivers, cabinet dimensions and the Subwoofer monicker of current REL models the basic sub-bass speaker performance remains largely unchanged from the beautifully hand crafted British models. These bass woofers can perform in middle of the room null locations such as popular near speaker or "six pack" locations.

I found the most noticeable performance improvement by positioning the down firing 2-10" on its side in my rooms pre determined 'subwoofer crawl' bass mode location and using Velodyne DD Optimization to the woofers (low) line level input. Low frequency remained limited by the still used -6dB design.

I'd invest in performance improvements from DSpeaker or miniDSP before passive upgrades. All the best with it.

 

[engadin]

I had written this in the REL group at fb, maybe worth to add here, too.

„I have a soft spot for things British.
I do like composers like Bax, Vaughan Williams, Arnold.
Clothes, shoes, shaving stuff.
Things like queueing, fair play and most of all their sense of humor.
Fb once ran a psychological test to find out the nation which comes most closely to your mindset.
Turned out I am resembling a Brit, which made me smile.

Well, it is an American brand these days, made in China, sigh.

No. 31 replaced a Velodyne dd12, an early version still made in California.
I really liked the Velodyne, it helped those tiny TAD micro evolution one quite a lot. Adding body and a credible heft to say a bass drum. Now it supports a friend’s miniature Sonus Faber speakers, he is really happy.

Nevertheless …
Enter the no. 31. The room only has a solid side wall, the rear wall is the sloping roof of an Engadin house, more than hundred years old.
So I placed no. 31 close to the side wall, fooled around with angle and an XTZ room analyzer.
The XTZ is in my limited experience a nice control, for setting up things I returned to REL’s recommendations.
Set up isn’t finished yet, but a few things I can tell right now:

The REL no. 31 is a gas.
Highly superior to my trusty old Velodyne (no surprise), much enhanced dynamics in bass department, much better control, heft, power, you name it.

I think it looks gorgeous, elegant, unique. My wife hates it.

But, there is more to it. Speed? I do think so.
Overall dynamics, drive, drama (when in the music), but also more fine detail, more resolution in regions far above the subwoofer’s frequencies.`
The illusion of a space behind the main speakers.
To my considerable surprise those little TADs seem now faster, quite lot. Turbocharged.

Break in is real, very real.
For the measurements crowd: https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction

Choice of power cord does influence sound, prepare for a surprise.
Some folks deny that a pc could possibly make a differencce, as they cannot imagine why.
Well, when the Levinson 23.5 was new (I am that old), a few friends and me ran a comparison with a Krell KSA 100 and Classé Audio DR3.
When changing amps we noticed to our considerable surprise that Krell’s pc (stiff, a blue foil under the outer sheath) made at least as much difference as changing amps. I sold my KSA 100, but kept it’s pc.
The pc which came with the no. 31 is ok.
I had an old NBS monitor 1 pc here unused.
Had worked pretty well with the Velodyne.
It works pretty well with quite a few other components.
The REL did NOT like it.
Bass lacked control, coherence. The illusion of space diminished.
But most of all something unpleasant in the upper frequencies.
This effect from a pc for a subwoofer?
You think this is completely bonkers? I can’t blame you.
I did think this is completely bonkers.
Took it out and the nastiness disappeared.
I have absolutely no explanation.
Some emi/rf stuff coming from the mains into the REL and traveling the low level xlr cable up to the preamp?
I have no idea. But there it is, this odd effect.

Next try: a 12 core solid core copper cable, silver plated.
Recommended by a highly experienced friend. Dieselhorst-Martin Verseilung

Balanced line - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well, this improved drive and tonal things, overall best now.
Otoh the illusion of space is slightly diminished, again.

Right now music is too much fun to fool around with set up.
Certainly not in all systems, but in some systems not all, but some pcs DO make a hell of a difference. Give it a try, maybe you are in for a surprise.

I would be surprised if some exotic fuse in the REL would NOT make a difference after having experienced this pc nonsense.
Those who tried other fuses in their REL: please do comment.

Summary:

Three cheers to the crew at REL for an outstanding product which improved my musical experience to a considerable degree and also in some unexpected regions.
Do keep an open mind for seemingly nonsense approaches, you might be in for a pleasant surprise“

 

[tarquineous]

Several of you have reached out for pics of the REL 6 pack array. Sorry for the late post. Catching up after these knee replacement surgeries...Here you go...John

Do you like the Furutech power cords over the Cardas on the subwoofers ?

 

[tarquineous]

A friend had tried several pcs for subs and said best results come with solid core cables with subs.
NBS is to the best of my knowledge solid core.
He recommended a Chinese made 12 core silver clad copper cable, which I am fighting to put plugs on…

Let us know the results after you finish the cables.

 

[tarquineous]

I had written this in the REL group at fb, maybe worth to add here, too.

„I have a soft spot for things British.
I do like composers like Bax, Vaughan Williams, Arnold.
Clothes, shoes, shaving stuff.
Things like queueing, fair play and most of all their sense of humor.
Fb once ran a psychological test to find out the nation which comes most closely to your mindset.
Turned out I am resembling a Brit, which made me smile.

Well, it is an American brand these days, made in China, sigh.

No. 31 replaced a Velodyne dd12, an early version still made in California.
I really liked the Velodyne, it helped those tiny TAD micro evolution one quite a lot. Adding body and a credible heft to say a bass drum. Now it supports a friend’s miniature Sonus Faber speakers, he is really happy.

Nevertheless …
Enter the no. 31. The room only has a solid side wall, the rear wall is the sloping roof of an Engadin house, more than hundred years old.
So I placed no. 31 close to the side wall, fooled around with angle and an XTZ room analyzer.
The XTZ is in my limited experience a nice control, for setting up things I returned to REL’s recommendations.
Set up isn’t finished yet, but a few things I can tell right now:

The REL no. 31 is a gas.
Highly superior to my trusty old Velodyne (no surprise), much enhanced dynamics in bass department, much better control, heft, power, you name it.

I think it looks gorgeous, elegant, unique. My wife hates it.

But, there is more to it. Speed? I do think so.
Overall dynamics, drive, drama (when in the music), but also more fine detail, more resolution in regions far above the subwoofer’s frequencies.`
The illusion of a space behind the main speakers.
To my considerable surprise those little TADs seem now faster, quite lot. Turbocharged.

Break in is real, very real.
For the measurements crowd: https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction

Choice of power cord does influence sound, prepare for a surprise.
Some folks deny that a pc could possibly make a differencce, as they cannot imagine why.
Well, when the Levinson 23.5 was new (I am that old), a few friends and me ran a comparison with a Krell KSA 100 and Classé Audio DR3.
When changing amps we noticed to our considerable surprise that Krell’s pc (stiff, a blue foil under the outer sheath) made at least as much difference as changing amps. I sold my KSA 100, but kept it’s pc.
The pc which came with the no. 31 is ok.
I had an old NBS monitor 1 pc here unused.
Had worked pretty well with the Velodyne.
It works pretty well with quite a few other components.
The REL did NOT like it.
Bass lacked control, coherence. The illusion of space diminished.
But most of all something unpleasant in the upper frequencies.
This effect from a pc for a subwoofer?
You think this is completely bonkers? I can’t blame you.
I did think this is completely bonkers.
Took it out and the nastiness disappeared.
I have absolutely no explanation.
Some emi/rf stuff coming from the mains into the REL and traveling the low level xlr cable up to the preamp?
I have no idea. But there it is, this odd effect.

Next try: a 12 core solid core copper cable, silver plated.
Recommended by a highly experienced friend. Dieselhorst-Martin Verseilung

Balanced line - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well, this improved drive and tonal things, overall best now.
Otoh the illusion of space is slightly diminished, again.

Right now music is too much fun to fool around with set up.
Certainly not in all systems, but in some systems not all, but some pcs DO make a hell of a difference. Give it a try, maybe you are in for a surprise.

I would be surprised if some exotic fuse in the REL would NOT make a difference after having experienced this pc nonsense.
Those who tried other fuses in their REL: please do comment.

Summary:

Three cheers to the crew at REL for an outstanding product which improved my musical experience to a considerable degree and also in some unexpected regions.
Do keep an open mind for seemingly nonsense approaches, you might be in for a pleasant surprise“

That's why most of us are here. We know the power cords make quite a significant difference and the difference can be an improvement. With that said, I've heard Tellurium Q makes a good sounding power cord for subwoofers. I'm surprised not to see more pairing with REL, because both are made in the UK.

 

[KrellFan1]

I had written this in the REL group at fb, maybe worth to add here, too.

„I have a soft spot for things British.
I do like composers like Bax, Vaughan Williams, Arnold.
Clothes, shoes, shaving stuff.
Things like queueing, fair play and most of all their sense of humor.
Fb once ran a psychological test to find out the nation which comes most closely to your mindset.
Turned out I am resembling a Brit, which made me smile.

Well, it is an American brand these days, made in China, sigh.

No. 31 replaced a Velodyne dd12, an early version still made in California.
I really liked the Velodyne, it helped those tiny TAD micro evolution one quite a lot. Adding body and a credible heft to say a bass drum. Now it supports a friend’s miniature Sonus Faber speakers, he is really happy.

Nevertheless …
Enter the no. 31. The room only has a solid side wall, the rear wall is the sloping roof of an Engadin house, more than hundred years old.
So I placed no. 31 close to the side wall, fooled around with angle and an XTZ room analyzer.
The XTZ is in my limited experience a nice control, for setting up things I returned to REL’s recommendations.
Set up isn’t finished yet, but a few things I can tell right now:

The REL no. 31 is a gas.
Highly superior to my trusty old Velodyne (no surprise), much enhanced dynamics in bass department, much better control, heft, power, you name it.

I think it looks gorgeous, elegant, unique. My wife hates it.

But, there is more to it. Speed? I do think so.
Overall dynamics, drive, drama (when in the music), but also more fine detail, more resolution in regions far above the subwoofer’s frequencies.`
The illusion of a space behind the main speakers.
To my considerable surprise those little TADs seem now faster, quite lot. Turbocharged.

Break in is real, very real.
For the measurements crowd: https://www.audioholics.com/loudspeaker-design/speaker-break-in-fact-or-fiction

Choice of power cord does influence sound, prepare for a surprise.
Some folks deny that a pc could possibly make a differencce, as they cannot imagine why.
Well, when the Levinson 23.5 was new (I am that old), a few friends and me ran a comparison with a Krell KSA 100 and Classé Audio DR3.
When changing amps we noticed to our considerable surprise that Krell’s pc (stiff, a blue foil under the outer sheath) made at least as much difference as changing amps. I sold my KSA 100, but kept it’s pc.
The pc which came with the no. 31 is ok.
I had an old NBS monitor 1 pc here unused.
Had worked pretty well with the Velodyne.
It works pretty well with quite a few other components.
The REL did NOT like it.
Bass lacked control, coherence. The illusion of space diminished.
But most of all something unpleasant in the upper frequencies.
This effect from a pc for a subwoofer?
You think this is completely bonkers? I can’t blame you.
I did think this is completely bonkers.
Took it out and the nastiness disappeared.
I have absolutely no explanation.
Some emi/rf stuff coming from the mains into the REL and traveling the low level xlr cable up to the preamp?
I have no idea. But there it is, this odd effect.

Next try: a 12 core solid core copper cable, silver plated.
Recommended by a highly experienced friend. Dieselhorst-Martin Verseilung

Balanced line - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Well, this improved drive and tonal things, overall best now.
Otoh the illusion of space is slightly diminished, again.

Right now music is too much fun to fool around with set up.
Certainly not in all systems, but in some systems not all, but some pcs DO make a hell of a difference. Give it a try, maybe you are in for a surprise.

I would be surprised if some exotic fuse in the REL would NOT make a difference after having experienced this pc nonsense.
Those who tried other fuses in their REL: please do comment.

Summary:

Three cheers to the crew at REL for an outstanding product which improved my musical experience to a considerable degree and also in some unexpected regions.
Do keep an open mind for seemingly nonsense approaches, you might be in for a pleasant surprise“

Happy to hear you are enjoying your REL No 31 so much. REL has been a staple in my system for as long as I have owned Krell amplifiers and Dynaudio speakers which for me date back to around 1990. I presently have a pair of REL 212/SX - one in the front rear corner and the other in the left rear corner of the room. Lacked a left front corner or else I’d have a stereo pair. But it works VERY well. Fantastic, actually. Superb, magical for home theater.
As for PC’s I am using a Voodoo cable that works really well with these gems. But if you wanna blow your mind for any preamp or ESPECIALLY any of your digital gear like a streamer or server, check out Cerious Technologies Lumniscate. Their power cords will transform your system 100%. I have the entire loom.

 

[tarquineous]

Happy to hear you are enjoying your REL No 31 so much. REL has been a staple in my system for as long as I have owned Krell amplifiers and Dynaudio speakers which for me date back to around 1990. I presently have a pair of REL 212/SX - one in the front rear corner and the other in the left rear corner of the room. Lacked a left front corner or else I’d have a stereo pair. But it works VERY well. Fantastic, actually. Superb, magical for home theater.
As for PC’s I am using a Voodoo cable that works really well with these gems. But if you wanna blow your mind for any preamp or ESPECIALLY any of your digital gear like a streamer or server, check out Cerious Technologies Lumniscate. Their power cords will transform your system 100%. I have the entire loom.

So are you using Voodoo on the REL subs and the rest Cerious ? Can I ask which model ? Those companies make several versions. Thanks...

 

[engadin]

Let us know the results after you finish the cables.

The Chinese Nordost ripoff won.
Following my friend‘s advice I configured the wiring different to the color coding. See the attached jpeg.
Quite a pita, but worth it.

 

[engadin]

The cable is available unterminated or you can find it with fake Furutech ncf plugs.
Longer lengths only with those fake Furus.
I replaced them with a genuine Furu ncf rhodium and Oyaide armoured.
Pretty good. Not expensive.

Putting a SR master into the REL helped things further.

 

[KrellFan1]

So are you using Voodoo on the REL subs and the rest Cerious ? Can I ask which model ? Those companies make several versions. Thanks...

Since I don't trust my memory 100% these days I wanted to be sure I provided correct info for you. So I checked my purchase history as it has been several years. In point of fact, I have one Voodoo Infinity Power Cord and powering my 2nd REL is a cable I bought used from US Audiomart, a
Mojo Audio Enigma CFC Power Cable 1.5m with Furutech Fi-28 Rhodium ONE.

As regards Cerious Technologies, I have deployed ALL Lumniscate throughout my system, beginning on blind faith based on user reviews with the XLR interconnects leading from my DAC to the preamp, and from my preamp to my Krell amp. For the record, at that time I had never met the owner, Robert Grost, but did so as I picked up the order since he is local to the Phoenix area in order to save shipping. It was at that time he encouraged me to purchase a power cord to experience the dramatic improvement his Luminscate PC's provide (in particular) for digital components such as DACS, streamers, servers, etc. And WOW! The interconnects alone delivered a meaningful improvement in bass, clarity and sound staging, but when I deployed the power cords it was a HUGE WOW factor! Really dramatic. And I went on to purchase his ginormous speaker cables. Most recently I purchased his Lumniscate AES cable for my Antipodes K22 player as the factory favors AES over USB.

So while I believe his Lumniscate power cords would ALSO serve you well for your REL subs, they are a bit pricey and may be overkill. He actually builds subs and speakers as he has about 500 legacy customers who continue to upgrade from his days as the owner of a medium size speaker company, Unity Speakers. I can ask when we speak next. And FWIW, as an aside, I am friendly with a top shelf ( un-named) who his entire career carried and sold one brand only of cables. We speak regularly and the man knows his metallurgy. When he read the story about how he uses liquid graphene his interest was piqued. So he was sent a full loom for demo purposes. He has a regular customer who popped in one day to listen with a cup of coffee - something he does once a week. He listened to his favorite songs and asked what changed. He had heard some of these songs HUNDREDS of times but heard detail and substance he's never heard before. When told of the new cables he immediately said, "Please order me a full loom, I don't care what they cost." And he became a dealer. Aside from this dealer he sells DTC. For context, many customers had Nordost Odin2 cables, purchased Lumniscate and sold their Odin2 online for a profit as the Cerious Lumniscate are about 1/5 the cost of Odin2 and to many sound better.

I hope this helps, and good luck!