MB Thread Comment

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
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It's a fact. People just cannot avoid personal attacks.

So this isn't the right thread for it, but heck, in the spirit of no-one-cares and to lighten up the conversation, here it is anyway. The best recording of the Fantastique I have heard is the one below - I just listened to it in my system again, and though the macrodynamics are definitely nowhere near what I heard last night, nonetheless, it's an extra-ordinary recording, able to capture the drama, with great tone, incredible dynamics, taught bass drum and everything else you can imagine. Compared to last time I heard it here, about 6 months ago, the improvements that my arm and subwoofer modifications have brought to fore are nothing short of sensational. Oh, and I have just completed more speaker modifications, not yet discussed. I guess I AM happy, Jack!

 

Folsom

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Oct 25, 2015
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If you showed a painting of a forest to the people in this thread... One group will talk about it as a piece of art. Another group will talk about how the trees are incorrect and can't be any known species.

I need to point out that for Leif he can only use what he's told, and he's not an EE - which wouldn't do much good since no one understands technical stuff either. It's not his fault if the engineers are re-translating different stuff that's confusing to us and him. It's a bad road to get on, and it happens fast.

All this talk about free radicals is just fancy marketing speech for saying the insulators affect the sound. We all knew that, it's not even hard to show with measurements.

Now what's really odd is this whole "they're pulling a fast one on us" given that the end result is the end result. How it sounds is the most important factor. Whether or not they're feeding you one translation or another of what they're made out of, is not a determiner of sound. This is a stupid, yet consistent, MO on forums for audio where because the manufacturer won't tell you any thing but pseudo information about their product, the product is invalid. It's like buying a car without knowing all the internal measurements of the engine, driving it down the road, noticing it drives well and appears near rated power.... but then saying it's a faulty scam because you don't know the wrist pin height.

BTW, in an effort to indulge how annoying I find this "are they even really cables, or just a scam" attitude... MIT's papers are nothing but nerd fluff. They're just elongated ways to state simple things. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if their sole purpose in applying for patents is for advertising alone. I especially enjoyed their pathetic, moronic, power filter paper. So don't go thinking anyone else has done you any favors and is anymore your total divulgent friend than anyone else making cables.
 

Al M.

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Sep 10, 2013
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To be honest, I consider this discussion done.

Leif promised to have the engineers take a look at the site. I appreciate that promise very much, and it is sufficient to me.

I am curious about the sound. That so many people like the cables may not be a coincidence. If I get a chance to listen, I'll do so with a wide open mind.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
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I'm just curious to why you feel your scientific knowledge in this field is greater than the engineers of MB who are engineers for an aerospace company that hold enough patents to make your head spin?

Friday when I was contacted by one of your locals friends asking about auditioning the cables I was very excited. I wanted to see if he had the same results of so many others that have put MB cables in their system. Now, I have no desire what so ever to do this anymore. I'm very pleased to know how the owners of MB cables feel it has transformed their systems.

I'm officially done with this thread.

Happy listening

Leif, I'm sorry if you have left the thread, but I respect your decision to do so. Perhaps you are still reading so I would like to make this request: I am one of the friends in the Boston area who is hoping to have the chance to hear your cables. May I ask you to please reconsider and send them out to the member. He and I will enjoy hearing them and I know he is interested in auditioning competing brands of cables for a potential change in that area of his system. I am curious to hear what they sound like, and I am trying to approach this with an open mind. Thank you.
 

RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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I found this tech explanation and it is probaly the most concise and truthful explanation on what effects sonic performance of audio cables and guess who it's written by....

Btw it's the "noise" mystery solved....so everybody can calm down and go on with lives. Bravo to Master Built for being truthful.
http://www.masterbuiltaudio.com/technology
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
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I found this tech explanation and it is probaly the most concise and truthful explanation on what effects sonic performance of audio cables and guess who it's written by....

Btw it's the "noise" mystery solved....so everybody can calm down and go on with lives. Bravo to Master Built for being truthful.
http://www.masterbuiltaudio.com/technology

This is also old news; discussed quite a while ago, and it was well received
 

MadFloyd

Member Sponsor
May 30, 2010
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Leif, I'm sorry if you have left the thread, but I respect your decision to do so. Perhaps you are still reading so I would like to make this request: I am one of the friends in the Boston area who is hoping to have the chance to hear your cables. May I ask you to please reconsider and send them out to the member. He and I will enjoy hearing them and I know he is interested in auditioning competing brands of cables for a potential change in that area of his system. I am curious to hear what they sound like, and I am trying to approach this with an open mind. Thank you.

Just noticed this thread. I am the member who asked Leif about auditioning the cables. I personally don't care one way or another about the marketing behind the cables. I'm not a scientist and don't care if the cable contain cow manure; if they sound good in my system, that's all that matters. I have also learned that just because I don't like a particular product - or if it doesn't synergize with my system and taste - it doesn't mean the product is at fault. This audio hobby is all about interaction between components, cables, power, room and taste and that makes it equally difficult for both the enthusiast and the dealers. Given that most good dealers realize this and allow the customer to audition before committing, the process can work very well.

In any case, I empathize with Leif. I wouldn't have the patience to put up with this crap. It seems so many people here prefer to argue and endlessly debate; there are so many threads devoted to this and there is not one single thing to be learned from these threads. Normally I steer clear of them as they hold no value for me, not even as entertainment.
 

RogerD

VIP/Donor
May 23, 2010
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This is also old news; discussed quite a while ago, and it was well received

You could have fooled me........
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
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You could have fooled me........

Honestly, this was discussed months ago, and it was well received as a great starting point, post last meltdown - I was the one who brought that up, in fact. I think you have missed quite a bit of drama. Doesn't matter, let's move on.
 

mauidan

Member Sponsor
Aug 2, 2010
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In any case, I empathize with Leif. I wouldn't have the patience to put up with this crap. It seems so many people here prefer to argue and endlessly debate; there are so many threads devoted to this and there is not one single thing to be learned from these threads. Normally I steer clear of them as they hold no value for me, not even as entertainment.

+1
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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No, my intent was to wish you well, and again, thanks for reaching out. But we do sometimes very strongly disagree on certain things. The question is, how do we all leave the emotions out of it.

And yes, I gain happiness from my system, which has pinned me down for listening marathons as long as 16 hours straight. But it cannot approach the immensity of a truly spectacular live performance. I hope anyone will pay at least one visit to the BSO at some point. Consider this: to achieve perfection, all musicians have to perform perfectly - that's the BSO, and that's the standard we go by over here.



Sure, perhaps too strong a comment, apologies are in order if it bothered anyone. But I was really referring to the super-conductor/CERN thing again, not what you guys have written about the sonics - I've been discussing the technical merits of the products, and I have never commented on anyone's claims on the sonics.

All the best

Ok then. I would very much like to visit the BSO one day. I was actually supposed to but that schedule was scrubbed when told your government had scheduled a personal tour of the Naval Academy that afternoon. You're preaching to the choir. The thrill of a live performance is my target as well. There's no bringing back the dead or turning back time however and the art of those gone and performances passed live on only through the recordings. Love for that art is what makes reproduction just as important to me as any live experience.
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
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Diplomacy wins

High end audio is a fascinating, multi-faceted, multi-talented hobby, and we music lovers/audiophiles benefit from the hard work so many other people put in and the risks they take, all around the world. The love of music is the primary driver of all things audio - from musicians, to recording engineers and studios, to music media production companies, to audio manufacturers, to distributors and dealers, and audiophiles. This journey is a learning process for everyone, excluding none, and this is why we all make progress in the enjoyment of music. An inevitable part of this journey are mistakes, made along the way by just about everyone; whether it's in the way recordings are made, or the way web sites attempt to convey a message, or the seemingly endless purchasing cycles some of us engage in, and even the heated debates we frequently see, they are all part of the learning process.

Some are better at building things than others, some are better at debating than others, others are better at listening than others, and some are better at understanding the science involved than others. Yet, deep down, everyone is fundamentally driven by the love of music and audio, and of course the economics of it all is also an inevitable part of it. With respect to the various audiophile personalities, some are very passionate, others more moderate, others not so much (even cold), and others just indifferent. When it comes to debates, passion is the fundamental driving factor; but we must not let passion overtake us.

I had some great discussions with Steve and other folks today, and there is no doubt in my mind that the subject of the latest [endless] debate - the MB cables - is driven by passion on all fronts: from those building them, to those waxing and glowing over their sound, and those debating and challenging their virtues. The problem, though, is how we all express ourselves. At this point, I think it is generally agreed that the original MB marketing language was overreaching and poorly written, while the main goal was to convey a product which by most accounts appears to be fundamentally ground-breaking in many ways, just not in the way it was originally written up. MB ought to clear up the design goals and achievements on their website. Then, those commenting on the MB sound have been extremely passionate about what they are hearing. That, plus the original questionable marketing language, caused other passionate folks to debate on and on about what they thought was wrong with what they saw and read.

All of that is might be OK, except when things get out of hand and threads are derailed; unfortunately, this MB discussion was yet another one of those derailed threads, and it shouldn't have been. To the credit of MB owners, none of them ever claimed their cables are the best all around (just the best some/most have heard), therefore, that alone should have drawn overall less criticism from the dissenters. The dissenters, on the other hand, have raised some significant concerns, which are in fact being addressed, so less criticism would have been more appropriate. In the end, over-zeal may have driven both sides to perceived extremes. As such, the debate should have really ended weeks, if not months, ago. If nothing else, the topic of the MB thread was around listening impressions, and we should all have adhered to that.

Warm thanks and kudos go out to Steve for running such a wonderful site, which has in fact created many new friendships - that alone is cause for celebration. In the end, diplomacy always wins.
 

es347

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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"In the end, diplomacy always wins"...with the exception perhaps of in Syria :rolleyes:
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
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Thanks, Tasos, for your conciliatory post. Yes, passions sometimes run out of hand, and I will certainly not exclude myself from this. The more I thank Leif for his generous offer to make sure concerns about the MB website are addressed, and once more, congratulations on the success of these products!

Also from me many thanks to Steve and the co-owners as well as moderators, and for the friendships this website has created.
 

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