Leveling up your speakers so they are bang on - do you do it?

[Jim Smith]

They may not sound best when perfectly vertical - depends on the listening seat height and the actual height of the listener...

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

I would think that if your speakers are not straight there must be some differences ... The real question is how much deviation from the vertical should it be? I mean 2 degrees from vertical is a lot for a human seating in a chair and crossing its legs .. You are no longer vertical ... Most of us have some body motion when we listen to music ... we crooked our head , rest it on our hands , etc .. Would 2 or 3 degrees be audible .. Allow me to have my doubts... Being an audiophiles, this being haunted by the FOMO (Fear of Missing Out) I make sure my speakers are as level as a buble level. these days more and more an pp in My HTC One M8 will tell me .. I don't go any further...

As for the differences.. We all remember the differences we felt in our cars after an oil change, even if the oil didn't need changing .. We always felt the car more performing , better everything ..

 

[DEV]

As for the differences.. We all remember the differences we felt in our cars after an oil change, even if the oil didn't need changing .. We always felt the car more performing , better everything ..

Really, not me - only thing I feel is have less money in my pocket.

 

[DEV]

They may not sound best when perfectly vertical - depends on the listening seat height and the actual height of the listener...

Yes I agree and there are other factors that come into play as you mention along the actual design of the speaker but for example I don't see that with my MBL's.

Some panel speakers I have owned were never installed vertical but tilted backwards to some degree, changing this did change the sound but they were always horizontally level.

 

[DEV]

The dude is right - shim as needed. A good digital level, and may be even a laser level.

When I owned my IRS V's this is what I did.

 

[thedudeabides]

They may not sound best when perfectly vertical - depends on the listening seat height and the actual height of the listener...

As well as the time smearing that occurs between the arrival time of music from the bottom of the panel versus the top. Distance from the speakers may impact this effect.

Very obvious with Martin Logans and I assume with other panel type / line array speakers. My experience is an audible increase in speed, dimensionality, and more refined overall frequency "response" (better blending) not to mention a more engaging listening experience with rake angle set to 90 degrees.

From my perspective, the only advantage of a "tilt back" position is that it provides additional midrange / HF energy (when standing up compared to sitting down) versus being perpendicular. Having said this, it begs the question of how many people actually "seriously" listen while standing up.

Best to experiment to see what one prefers.

 

[thedudeabides]

Hi

Would 2 or 3 degrees be audible .

Assuming you have an articulate, transparent system the answer, from my experience, is definitely yes.

 

[microstrip]

I still remember that the Apogee Duetta Signature was very sensitive to vertical tilt - and curiously when you tilted it backwards the soundstage height would lower. Just using our instinct we always did the wrong correction!

 

[FrantzM]

Assuming you have an articulate, transparent system the answer, from my experience, is definitely yes.

This being said with no amount of irony: You think you can sit that still for 2 minutes? You head will move more than that with respect to the vertical ... The transparency of the system notwithstanding you are moving much more than 2 degrees off vertical wen you are listening to music.

 

[microstrip]

This being said with no amount of irony: You think you can sit that still for 2 minutes? You head will move more than that with respect to the vertical ... The transparency of the system notwithstanding you are moving much more than 2 degrees of vertical wen you are listening to music.

Frantz,

The effect is mostly related to the reflections in the room, not exactly to your head position - fortunately the stage height produced by my speakers does not change a lot when I move my head. Remember that height information is perceived in a very special way - we had such debate in a dedicated thread in WBF long ago.

BTW, people should consider that a 3 degree tilt change in a 5 feet tall speaker moves the top about 3 inches (I hope my metric to imperial conversions are correct)

 

[JackD201]

For linesources I would definitely go for perfectly vertical or identical rake angle. For Omnis I'd go further than perfectly vertical by making sure that they had the exact height too. Try measuring that since measuring floor to top wouldn't work if it is the floor that isn't level!

That said, I do agree with Frantz to a great degree. How many times have you observed people sitting forward and back, tilting their heads this way or that and maybe even moving their chairs around a bit using their butts to find that best spot when in anal retentive OC mode? I know we've all seen it a million times and have done the same ourselves. While I do worship at the temple of symmetry, I have no illusions that biologically the vast majority of us are not perfectly symmetrical with our hearing apparatus'.

The great thing about going through all the AROC stuff is that while it seems stupid at first glance, going through the process actually puts you in a more relaxed state, a ready for music not sound state, later on. That to me is priceless even if you WILL find something else to tweak eventually! LOL! If even only for that, go for it! If the aural benefits are obvious all the better!

 

[FrantzM]

Frantz,

The effect is mostly related to the reflections in the room, not exactly to your head position - fortunately the stage height produced by my speakers does not change a lot when I move my head. Remember that height information is perceived in a very special way - we had such debate in a dedicated thread in WBF long ago.

BTW, people should consider that a 3 degree tilt change in a 5 feet tall speaker moves the top about 3 inches (I hope my metric to imperial conversions are correct)

microstrip

I would concede you that much but said reflections will also suppose that your head is not moving at all. Therefore their effect will constantly vary as your head moves, involuntarily, I understand the need to precisely set one's system but ...

As I said earlier I think one needs to make sure the speakers are as level as possible ... I wouldn't go past a decent water bubble for such.

 

[microstrip]

microstrip

I would concede you that much but said reflections will also suppose that your head is not moving at all. Therefore their effect will constantly vary as your head moves, involuntarily, I understand the need to precisely set one's system but ...

(...) .

It seems to me you are falling in in the old "head in a vice" argument which completely ignores psychoacoustics. It was debated in WBF several times.

 

[Johnny Vinyl]

While I do worship at the temple of symmetry, I have no illusions that biologically the vast majority of us are not perfectly symmetrical with our hearing apparatus'.

My right ear sits roughly 1/2" higher on the side of my head (LOL, yes my head) than my left ear. I first noticed this when I started wearing glasses in my mid-thirties as they would never sit properly.

 

[c1ferrari]

For linesources I would definitely go for perfectly vertical or identical rake angle. For Omnis I'd go further than perfectly vertical by making sure that they had the exact height too. Try measuring that since measuring floor to top wouldn't work if it is the floor that isn't level!

That said, I do agree with Frantz to a great degree. How many times have you observed people sitting forward and back, tilting their heads this way or that and maybe even moving their chairs around a bit using their butts to find that best spot when in anal retentive OC mode? I know we've all seen it a million times and have done the same ourselves. While I do worship at the temple of symmetry, I have no illusions that biologically the vast majority of us are not perfectly symmetrical with our hearing apparatus'.

The great thing about going through all the AROC stuff is that while it seems stupid at first glance, going through the process actually puts you in a more relaxed state, a ready for music not sound state, later on. That to me is priceless even if you WILL find something else to tweak eventually! LOL! If even only for that, go for it! If the aural benefits are obvious all the better!

Without objection, the motion is passed

 

[FrantzM]

Without objection, the motion is passed

 

[cjf]

I've spent many hours trying to get my speakers as level as possible but always end up needing to resort to various neanderthal approaches in determining if the speaker is indeed level or not. I would love to be able to use a nice digital level like the one displayed in Post #1 of this thread but in my situation the speakers I use (B&W 803 Diamonds) have no flat surfaces to rest such a device on. The only way I am able to approach leveling is from the bottom of the speaker which is the only flat surface available.

In my case I basically need to use a tape measure and check the distance from the floor to the bottom of the tower and then adjust the spiked feet accordingly. Not the most scientific or accurate approach but it is what it is. I have no doubts that there are some differences in leveling between the two speakers unfortunately.

Another challenge I struggled with for quite some time was Toe-In angle between the two speakers. Seems easy enough on paper to do but in reality it proved to be a bear. I ended up using a homemade protractor contraption to get the two towers as close as possible.