Back to recording quality, my best bet are:
Pentatone, Channel Classics and BIS.
BIS if I had to choose only one.
We've ripped the entire BIS label and I'd say only about 60-70% could be called Good to VG.
Back to recording quality, my best bet are:
Pentatone, Channel Classics and BIS.
BIS if I had to choose only one.
So, Bruce, what would your reply be to the precise question I phrased initially: are recording engineers for classical material less careful now than they were, say, 30, 40 years ago?
Frank
Yes, that was my gut feeling: thank god we have this vast treasury of exceptional recordings done over the previous decades, which will be shown in better and better light as people's playback systems improve still further ...I feel they are. I've seen so many engineers so meticulous as not to even have a twist in a cable or at least have 2-3 layers of redundancy. I don't see that today. With shrinking budgets, limited time and a society that wants things yesterday, it's a dying art.
Mark, when was the last time you listened up close to acoustic music?
That's exactly how your ear/brain works when dealing with live sound, not PA pulp: if someone is playing a real saxophone you can hear him clear as a bell from the other end of the house, and the player hasn't got a 1,000W air pressure pump in his mouth. You can then walk up to him and stick your ear a few inches away from the body of the instrument, and will be aware of a very intense sound pressure which pulses through your head, completely overwhelming all other noise.
If I were to spin you around a couple of times in that same position so you didn't know which way you were facing, I think you would have great difficulty pointing accurately to where the instrument was.
And no nonsense about loudspeakers and music instruments being different things.
Sound waves are sound waves, once they leave whatever has produced them the air has no knowledge of what produced that disturbance of itself, so neither should your ears ...It's as simple as that. Frank
I feel they are. I've seen so many engineers so meticulous as not to even have a twist in a cable or at least have 2-3 layers of redundancy. I don't see that today. With shrinking budgets, limited time and a society that wants things yesterday, it's a dying art.
May be I'm biased, sure I have not listened to all BIS recordings, but all the ones I have purchased at eClassical, most 24bit 44.1kHz and a few 24bit 88.2kHz are native PCM masters and they sound great.
Maybe they put there just the real good ones and the rest are not so good.
I have downloaded around 100 of them.
Back to recording quality, my best bet are:
Pentatone, Channel Classics and BIS.
BIS if I had to choose only one.
Interesting, I've just discovered a new fact about the physics of sound: that the movement of paper, a form of wood, is intrinsically incapable of creating a pressure wave the same as made by the movement of wood, say in a musical instrument -- you learn something new every day ...No it’s not. A piano is going to produce a different pressure wave in the air than a speaker does. Ditto for any instrument-let alone a symphony orchestra.
Mark, when was the last time you listened up close to acoustic music? That's exactly how your ear/brain works when dealing with live sound, not PA pulp: if someone is playing a real saxophone you can hear him clear as a bell from the other end of the house, and the player hasn't got a 1,000W air pressure pump in his mouth. You can then walk up to him and stick your ear a few inches away from the body of the instrument, and will be aware of a very intense sound pressure which pulses through your head, completely overwhelming all other noise. If I were to spin you around a couple of times in that same position so you didn't know which way you were facing, I think you would have great difficulty pointing accurately to where the instrument was.
So that's how the ear/brain works with the real thing. So the point of an audio setup is to replicate that experience. And no nonsense about loudspeakers and music instruments being different things. Sound waves are sound waves, once they leave whatever has produced them the air has no knowledge of what produced that disturbance of itself, so neither should your ears ...
It's as simple as that.
Frank
Yes, they make SACDs, but masters are PCM, so SACDs are PCM to DSD conversions. Red layer is native PCM.BIS, do they made SACDs?
Interesting, I've just discovered a new fact about the physics of sound: that the movement of paper, a form of wood, is intrinsically incapable of creating a pressure wave the same as made by the movement of wood, say in a musical instrument -- you learn something new every day ...
Frank
I concur, that is how I remember BIS sound in analogue days. Probably that's why I'm impressed with current recordings.Bis at least in their analog days, were always a bit edgy and thin to my ears. Even the Paniagua La Spagna on HP's list.
May be I'm biased, sure I have not listened to all BIS recordings, but all the ones I have purchased at eClassical, most 24bit 44.1kHz and a few 24bit 88.2kHz are native PCM masters and they sound great.
Maybe they put there just the real good ones and the rest are not so good.
I have downloaded around 100 of them.
But IF the pressure wave is different then that is distortion. By definition. We're aiming with our systems to minimise such, and good quality speaker transducers can get down to 60dB below in their working range. The same as high quality tube amps, and as a side note very similar to what that Atlas amp was pumping into the Vandersteens. But that still sounded magical to you and others there. So in what way didn't it sound "real"?They both create pressure waves Frank. They just don’t create the same pressure waves. Think about it Frank. It’s impossible they both disturb the air in the same way.
Yes, they make SACDs, but masters are PCM, so SACDs are PCM to DSD conversions. Red layer is native PCM.
So the best quality you can get is probably 24bit downloads.
Now, you're going to hate me, Tom, but I'm doing to drag back a variation on a thought experiment I posed to you some time ago: a soundproof wall, big Steinway on the other side. Cut a hole in the wall to perfectly match the shape of a highly ranked panel speaker, with a soundproof door that can be shut. You, on the other side from the piano, say 10 feet away from the door are blindfolded and now we'll run some AB's.Now, more complex stuff, such as a piano, etc, gets harder IMO, but still very very difficult to tell.
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