Gryphon Mephisto stereo vs Dag S250 vs CH M1.1stereo

[Thieliste]

Can you guys please give us the flavor and attributes of these 3 top notch stereo amps.
Which one do you prefer and why ?

 

[LL21]

Hi Thieliste,

I have heard, auditioned two of them at length and own the Gryphon Mephisto. Having spoken with a few reviewers including one who has been to the home and also speaking with a few owners...I have a very good feeling that I could seriously admire and enjoy the CH 1.1 as well. My personal observations and notes on the first two:

1. D'Agostino Stereo 250
- powerful, filigreed, balanced. An exceptional world-class amp.
- The D'Agostino is a powerful amp but never comes across as an all-out brute the way some muscle amps do
- I suspect it is because of 2 things:

- its mids and treble are so filigreed and delicate/extended that it never manages to give that muscled impression​

- I also wonder in comparison with the really big beasts (D'Agostino Relentless, Boulder 2000/2100 & 3000 series amps and the Gryphons) whether it really is able to create that ultimate bedrock feeling​

- That said, the overall control, power and dexterity of the amp means that it has the ability to provide the detailing of a single violin note as it soars, solo without the stridency that can plague amps that have this level of detail...while at the same time controlling the speaker top to bottom without strain
- And when it's designed by someone whose reputation has always been at the leading edge of amplification going back to the 80's...you always have confidence about reliability, build-quality and long-term pride of ownership

2. Gryphon Mephisto
- More (much more) powerful presentation
- Balanced with a sense of spacial presence that I have not come across before in SS amps.
- Tube amps stereotypically have their own sense of presence thru air around instruments and bloom...the Gryphon does it differently...somehow managing to create a very very dense body to space that feels more lifelike (to me)
- The details are there, choral words and all the little zips pings and echoes are there...i have tracks where i can check these by counting which words i can understand or not...but in the presentation of the Gryphon, it is not the detail at all that hits you...it is that deep, S-O-L-I-D spacial presence thing. It sounds real in our system.
- Deep bass hits bedrock for sure...solid, impenetrable...like the difference between military helicopters vs civilian helicopters if you've ever heard them both
- Effortless...this also impresses me...its endless power is immediately evident in the way it gets the big Wilsons to move through and resolve complex orchestral passages so easily...when the speakers could not do it when under the control of other amps...that you wonder how could the music sound so different between the Gryphon and so many other amps. Specifically, intense orchestral passages where the crescendos 'crush' the music together with some amps (which seems impressive at first since it is a crescendo after all)...suddenly actually ease up because all of the musical lines don't crush together...the lines just keep soaring and lifting individually.

Clearly, I have made my choice, and I would not trade it for any amp I have heard to date: (FMA 111? monos, Boulder 2060, D'Agostino S250, Krell Evo 1, Dartzeel 108 original, Soulution 500 series, Constellation Centaur, Electrocompaniet Nemo, Ypsilon SET100 Ultimate, ARC Ref 250, Zanden 9600 Monos v1).

But it is a very personal preference based on my own priorities in sound reproduction. Hope that is a helpful datapoint.

 

[Vienna]

Back in November 2018 I had the chance to audition in the same room with the same Kaiser Acoustics, Kawero speakers, the M1 stereo side by side with the Mephisto.
the Mephisto Sound was involving, organic, detailed, sweet and rich. The M1 stereo was detailed too, but cold and clinical.
I liked however the Ch precision pre amp driving the Mephisto, slightly more than the Pandora driving the Mephisto.

The Sound difference was such that I had ordered the Gryphon system the same day.

since then I have replaced speakers, cables, sources but never thought to replace the Mephisto, I would only consider perhaps changing the pre-amp.

 

[Thieliste]

Thanks guys, that does help.
How is the noise floor on the Mephisto compared to the S250 ? i know CH M1 is very very low.

 

[dcc]

It seems that you have been investigating the different options for your system since ages. I hope that one day you will finally settle and enjoy your new system.

 

[LL21]

Thanks guys, that does help.
How is the noise floor on the Mephisto compared to the S250 ? i know CH M1 is very very low.

My recollection is Mephisto wins but I would not wager on that based on my memory.

 

[Thieliste]

It seems that you have been investigating the different options for your system since ages. I hope that one day you will finally settle and enjoy your new system.

Just have to be patient in life, things will happen.

 

[LL21]

Just have to be patient in life, things will happen.

Measure twice..cut once...I support your careful approach. It has taken me years sometimes to wait for the piece I wanted even when I knew what it was. But the piece was right, and the price was right. And I have never looked back.

 

[tsaett]

Gryphon Class A has many strengths, S/N however is not one of them. The Mephisto is rated at around 80db, which is solid tube amp level. CH is an order of magnitude better in this regard. That does not necessarily correlate with the sonic outcome of course, speaker matching is much more critical. Personally I am a gryphon fan, having owned the Antileon Signature for almost 4 years, fabulous amp!

Good luck with your search.

 

[Thieliste]

Gryphon Class A has many strengths, S/N however is not one of them. The Mephisto is rated at around 80db, which is solid tube amp level. CH is an order of magnitude better in this regard. That does not necessarily correlate with the sonic outcome of course, speaker matching is much more critical. Personally I am a gryphon fan, having owned the Antileon Signature for almost 4 years, fabulous amp!

Good luck with your search.

Well i will most likely purchase Borresen 03s which are highly resolving speakers just like my previous Thiel CS 3.7s but less bright.
The Mephisto should be a good match with it's physical bass and organic sound.
CH M1 might sound a little thin on the Borresens as opposed to the Mephisto, just a guess.
Dag S250 beeing musical should do well with the Borresens.
I would have loved to put the Audionet Heisenberg in the battle but it's not within my budget.

 

[LL21]

Gryphon Class A has many strengths, S/N however is not one of them. The Mephisto is rated at around 80db, which is solid tube amp level. CH is an order of magnitude better in this regard. That does not necessarily correlate with the sonic outcome of course, speaker matching is much more critical. Personally I am a gryphon fan, having owned the Antileon Signature for almost 4 years, fabulous amp!

Good luck with your search.

Thanks for that...I just looked up the new Mephisto (105db SN Ratio)...and just realized that I have only heard the original Mephisto 200watt/channel. So my comments apply to that one. I apologize...as you can see, I admit that I have been so happy with Gryphon, I have lost touch with some of the other amp manufacturers and did not realize the Momentum Stereo had received an upgrade.

The Momentum Stereo original which I heard had a S/N Ratio of 90db A-weighted vs the Mephisto of 83db A-weighted.

 

[Thieliste]

Thanks for that...I just looked up the new Mephisto (105db SN Ratio)...and just realized that I have only heard the original Mephisto 200watt/channel. So my comments apply to that one. I apologize...as you can see, I admit that I have been so happy with Gryphon, I have lost touch with some of the other amp manufacturers and did not realize the Momentum Stereo had received an upgrade.

The Momentum Stereo original which I heard had a S/N Ratio of 90db A-weighted vs the Mephisto of 83db A-weighted.

Do you know what upgrades have been done to the present Mephisto 175 watts ?
Did they use the same newer parts as the Antileon Evo ?

 

[LL21]

Do you know what upgrades have been done to the present Mephisto 175 watts ?
Did they use the same newer parts as the Antileon Evo ?

Hi...apologies. I do not know the technicals...other than the obvious.
- The capacitance is greater than that of the Colosseum, the former flagship.
- It has returned from the Colosseum (with 2 quite fans in column design) back to the original design with massive heat sinks (which i prefer because then you have NO noise from any fans.)

On my personal observations vs predecessor flagship Colosseum:
- They seem to have gotten the Mephisto to create far greater foundation than even the mighty Colosseum which is a surprise to me...
- Phil O'Hanlon the US Distributor also said it had a lot more detail "by a country mile" and I concur having owned both.
- It also had a return to that extra 3%-5% of intensity of sweetness which I think might have gone away (along with a lot of dark warmth from the original Antileon) in the Colosseum...but now without the darkness of the older Gryphons (which I never minded).
- You might also read Jeff Fritz' review of the Mephisto where he makes some comparisons to the Colosseum as well.

 

[heihei]

Well i will most likely purchase Borresen 03s which are highly resolving speakers just like my previous Thiel CS 3.7s but less bright.
The Mephisto should be a good match with it's physical bass and organic sound.
CH M1 might sound a little thin on the Borresens as opposed to the Mephisto, just a guess.
Dag S250 beeing musical should do well with the Borresens.
I would have loved to put the Audionet Heisenberg in the battle but it's not within my budget.

You should listen to the Heisenberg - you might decide to make it within budget! In my system I put them ahead of a pair of M1.2's.

 

[LL21]

Thanks for that...I just looked up the new Mephisto (105db SN Ratio)...and just realized that I have only heard the original Mephisto 200watt/channel. So my comments apply to that one. I apologize...as you can see, I admit that I have been so happy with Gryphon, I have lost touch with some of the other amp manufacturers and did not realize the Momentum Stereo had received an upgrade.

The Momentum Stereo original which I heard had a S/N Ratio of 90db A-weighted vs the Mephisto of 83db A-weighted.

Sorry Thieliste...I just realized why i created all the confusion! I meant to say I heard the original MOMENTUM (NOT MEPHISTO)!! Yeesh what a dumb mistake. There is ONLY ONE Mephisto model. There have been TWO MOMENTUM models by D'Agostino.

I cannot understand how i mistyped that...apologies. Hope that makes things more clear.

 

[LL21]

You should listen to the Heisenberg - you might decide to make it within budget! In my system I put them ahead of a pair of M1.2's.

One of the audio dealers who kindly came to install the Gryphon Mephisto (not Gryphon dealer...he was doing a favor helping my dealer) sells the Heisenbergs and was raving about them. He loved the Gryphon too, and had years of experience with them...but we spoke at length about his impression of the Heisenberg, and he had only superlatives to say about them. He did not appear to be in sales mode given that I had just acquired the Gryphon Mephisto...i genuinely found him enthusiastic about the Heisenbergs...and he clearly had been successfully selling high end audio for many years.

Congrats on what appears to be a legendary piece of work. The review I have read on them was impressive.

 

[LL21]

Thanks for that...I just looked up the new Mephisto (105db SN Ratio)...and just realized that I have only heard the original Mephisto 200watt/channel. So my comments apply to that one. I apologize...as you can see, I admit that I have been so happy with Gryphon, I have lost touch with some of the other amp manufacturers and did not realize the Momentum Stereo had received an upgrade.

The Momentum Stereo original which I heard had a S/N Ratio of 90db A-weighted vs the Mephisto of 83db A-weighted.

Do you know what upgrades have been done to the present Mephisto 175 watts ?
Did they use the same newer parts as the Antileon Evo ?

Hi...I just realized...i totally mistyped my earlier quote...i meant to say i had heard the original MOMENTUM STEREO (D'AGOSTINO)!!! Not MEPHISTO. There is only ONE Mephisto. There obviously have been 2 Momentums, the S250 being the updated model. Sorry for all the confusion!

 

[Thieliste]

You should listen to the Heisenberg - you might decide to make it within budget! In my system I put them ahead of a pair of M1.2's.

heihei thanks for your input, yes i heard the Heisenberg at Munich 2 years ago but didn't like the Dynaudios paired with them, i'm sure Borresens would be a much better match.
I will visite the Audionet dealer at some point to audition again in much better conditions.
Heisenberg retail for 70K€, i don't want to spend more than 45-50k for an amp therefore i have to see if i can get a good deal otherwise it will be Mephisto stereo.

 

[ICUToo]

Extending this older comparison thread a little_ can anyone comment on Audionet Humboldt vs Gryphon Mephisto, both driven directly from a DAC? (I acknowledge one is integrated!) I have a Humboldt which I love but have the chance to get a Mephisto. Driving Magico A5s.
I really love ease and transparency, female vocal realism is important to me
Thanks for any experience shared