Fremer says 9" arms are inherently superior?

[microstrip]

Fsonicsmith, Folsom, DaveyF: Michael has withdrawn from the forum. Great work, guys! You sure showed him a thing or two! I hope you are proud of yourselves!

Don't lecture me on how unreasonable or impatient you think Michael was, and how magnanimous and fair-minded you all were. I won't be listening.

And this will happen again and again in this forum as long as the basic rules of moderation are ignored.

Sorry, if people are allowed to start threads with provocative or misleading tittles, or systematically disrespecting reviewers from magazines and other forums we will never attract new valuable members from the industry.

 

[microstrip]

Call me a simple idiot if you must, but has anyone considered the possibility that certain arms are better in one length variant than another and therefore the length question is arm specific? Can I just give a disclaimer that I am not convinced one way or the other, and by default normally have mostly 9 inch arms, 2 10.5's and one 12 inch arm - but they are all different. It's not a case of saying that 1 teaspoon of salt is ideal for any dish that you serve?

I tried to express a similar idea a few pages back, but when grenades are exploding nobody listens. The main argument on this subject - the moment of inertia of the arms of different lengths was not even approached in this thread.

 

[DaveyF]

I swear, I'm seeing unfriendly stars sometimes. And I believe that I'm not the only one. I put myself in Michael's shoes and I just don't need the aggravation.

He'll be back; he has a big human heart, bigger than the stratosphere.
You can tell in a man, woman and child, by their sense of humor rising above everything else. ...The true power of good living @ its very best.

We don't downsize people, we elevate them from their positive contribution to the society. ...Something encouraging like that...for the better peace of living together than talk words of animosity.

Words truly matter, big time baby. ...Hell yeah.

Bob, you write a lot of words in a post...remember your own advice.
I won’t say anymore than that....I don’t need to.

 

[DaveyF]

His entire attitude during his brief membership....mean spirited and defensive to a degree.

Thank you Christian...

+1000

 

[Tirebiter]

On another forum I am a member of, one that covers fancy Italian cars , there is a section with the title "Politics and Religion (not for the faint of heart)". Discussions between members from opposing parties, ideologies and even continents get into, shall we say, heated discussions. Moderators routinely dole out bans of varying lengths for infractions such as personal attacks and the like. The fireworks can be fun to watch but in the end is detrimental to the forum longevity. The system works and maintains some level of decorum...most of the time...at least until some troll comes along and stirs the pot too vigorously. The offender gets a vacation and things settle back down.

 

[kevinkwann]

I am puzzled...

I’ve observed that you’re more often puzzled than not.

 

[cjfrbw]

Its pretty routine, predictable behavior for MF on the blogs. It has happened time and again over the years.

MF shows up with an aw shucks, I’m just a humble audiophile sharing my good news thing. At some point, somebody says something that offends his ego or opinion. MF then gets defensive. Somebody says another thing that offends his ego or opinion. MF starts swearing, cursing and insulting like a fishwife and attacking like junkyard dog. MF takes ego and stomps out.

 

[Pb Blimp]

Its pretty routine, predictable behavior for MF on the blogs. It has happened time and again over the years.

MF shows up with an aw shucks, I’m just a humble audiophile sharing my good news thing. At some point, somebody says something that offends his ego or opinion. MF then gets defensive. Somebody says another thing that offends his ego or opinion. MF starts swearing, cursing and insulting like a fishwife and attacking like junkyard dog. MF takes ego and stomps out.

All the more reason to be respectful, assuming the goal was to keep him involved and benefit from his vast perspective. Seems like a small price to pay.

 

[NorthStar]

His entire attitude during his brief membership....mean spirited and defensive to a degree.

Michael first came here to defend himself from some comment made in the very first post of this thread, which he referred too on his Facebook page. That was real nice of him to come here and say what he has to say. IMO he was also right.

His two dozen posts were fine, in line with WBF's regular routine. His 25th he simply expressed deeper his frustration @ being badly played by Davey. I don't see Michael being inhuman by Davey's constant mentioning of manufacturers creating inferior tonearms. We all know how our world works, and the passion to push the envelope ever further, pleasing the aural senses. That's the ultra high end passion and business.

Anyway it's not the end of the world but I with few other members we greatly appreciate having the participation of other audio passionate to expand our audio knowledge.

A little more gentleness goes a long way sometimes. I know that Davey like Mikey both have it in them.
It was an opportunity to exercise it, to make Mikey feel more comfy so that he was feeling @ planet analog, home.

 

[rockitman]

All the more reason to be respectful, assuming the goal was to keep him involved and benefit from his vast perspective. Seems like a small price to pay.

That would of been ideal...MF didn’t appear to be interested in that.

 

[rockitman]

On another forum I am a member of, one that covers fancy Italian cars , there is a section with the title "Politics and Religion (not for the faint of heart)". Discussions between members from opposing parties, ideologies and even continents get into, shall we say, heated discussions. Moderators routinely dole out bans of varying lengths for infractions such as personal attacks and the like. The fireworks can be fun to watch but in the end is detrimental to the forum longevity. The system works and maintains some level of decorum...most of the time...at least until some troll comes along and stirs the pot too vigorously. The offender gets a vacation and things settle back down.

I know that Forum well and have had 3 temp bans over the past two years or so...

 

[NorthStar]

"What's Best Forum (WBF Forum)
The friendliest place to find the best in audio, video, music, movies, television, health, sports and much more!"

 

[NorthStar]

All the more reason to be respectful, assuming the goal was to keep him involved and benefit from his vast perspective. Seems like a small price to pay.

You said it again perfectly, Paul.

 

[Ron Resnick]

I’ve observed that you’re more often puzzled than not.

That is a puzzling observation.

 

[kevinkwann]

That is a puzzling observation.

 

[metaphacts]

As an observation, Michael does not suffer fools (or foolish comments) gladly.

I've known him since 1981. I would not expect this to change.

If you expect something different, perhaps it is you who is not paying attention.

As always, ymmv.

 

[awsmone]

Ya Mike did seem a tad grumpy today but its the fact that he has great passion about his job and this hobby that makes him so special IMO. Just sayin......

I totally agree with your opinion, he is a wonderful asset to analog world, but everyone needs to be accountable for their own behaviour

I totally agree with Ron, and some others that there were some very unnecessary comments that appeared to be directed personally at him , and that got his back up , to me that is a moderator issue, and I felt that if we were going to invite him onto the site we as a forum should have removed those posts.

But likewise he has a point of view, and the reason for a forum is for an exchange of views.

I am sure that MF has great experience and reasoned arguments for his point of view, and given his relationship with the industry such as Marc Gomez, that he would share that with the forum

I always read MF articles avidly and even reread old ones I am interested in, I have learnt a lot from him, and have occasional corresponded by email, and he has always generously answered, but perhaps, in the environment of an amateur forum such as this, does not bring out his best.

 

[jeff1225]

"What's Best Forum (WBF Forum)
The friendliest place to find the best in audio, video, music, movies, television, health, sports and much more!"

United

"Fly the friendly skies"

The USP does not always line up with reality....

 

[DaveyF]

Its pretty routine, predictable behavior for MF on the blogs. It has happened time and again over the years.

MF shows up with an aw shucks, I’m just a humble audiophile sharing my good news thing. At some point, somebody says something that offends his ego or opinion. MF then gets defensive. Somebody says another thing that offends his ego or opinion. MF starts swearing, cursing and insulting like a fishwife and attacking like junkyard dog. MF takes ego and stomps out.

Here’s the thing of it, MF brought this up himself when he stated and I quote: “Nor am I trying to tell anyone else what to think or what to buy. However, off the record most of the tone arm manufacturers agree with my position and make longer arms to satisfy the marketplace desire for them.”
Since MF has come out and stated he prefers the 9” arm for some valid (at least to me) reasons, I would think that the irony of the situation is now obvious.
His reactions that followed when I questioned the scruples of manufacturer’s making a product that they themselves believe to be inferior, but propogating the belief that the product is in fact superior and therefore worth a higher price, certainly has lessened my opinion of him.

 

[Ron Resnick]

Here’s the thing of it, MF brought this up himself when he stated and I quote: “Nor am I trying to tell anyone else what to think or what to buy. However, off the record most of the tone arm manufacturers agree with my position and make longer arms to satisfy the marketplace desire for them.”
Since MF has come out and stated he prefers the 9” arm for some valid (at least to me) reasons, I would think that the irony of the situation is now obvious.
His reactions that followed when I questioned the scruples of manufacturer’s making a product that they themselves believe to be inferior, but propogating the belief that the product is in fact superior and therefore worth a higher price, certainly has lessened my opinion of him.

I still have no clue what you think is the problem with what Michael stated in your first point. Michael’s statement was measured and reasonable and made sense to me. Michael brought nothing on himself by posting that statement.

I still think your entire premise on the latter point is faulty. No manufacturer is making a product he believes to be objectively and universally inferior. It is no surprise that Michael was annoyed by an illogical argument.