DSD Battle Royale!

Bunpei

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Dec 4, 2016
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Tokyo
Some active audiences on this thread might have read my posts on Computer Audiophile.

As for a new reference recording by Mr. Takada, I posted this in elsewhere.
http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f13-music-downloads-and-streaming/new-tchaikovsky-6th-channel-classics-30136/index2.html#post597461

I'm afraid that it is a kind of off-topic because my material is not for a classical music and it involves no Grimm.
However, I hope it would be interesting for some audiences.

Just yesterday, Mr. Takada of MIXER'S LAB (MIXER'S LAB - Engineers - Hideo Takada - MIXER'S LAB) presented a set of reference sources especially recorded for comparison of sound quality resulted from differences in resolutions and formats. His demo was given in a technical presentation of "Sound Salon and Conference" held by Japan Audio Society in Tokyo.

For the comparison purpose, he mastered several Jazz trio sessions played by Toma(Sax) and Mami(Pf) with Sato(Perc) in Victor Studio using Avid Pro Tools and three Merging Pyramix/HAPI devices that digitized one identical analog mixing console stereo output in parallel. (All mixing was done in analog and the stereo output was recorded in Pro Tools and Pyramix/HAPI. No post editing was applied on those DAWs in principle.)

A benchmark is 44.1 kHz/16 bit PCM digitized by Pro Tools. "High-resolution" test samples are mainly digitized by Pyramix/HAPI.
One of the comparison sets was "the same format: DSD with sampling rate variations: 2.8, 5.6, 11.2" on Pyramix/HAPI. We could perceive clear differences of sound quality among them. It was a very interesting experience for me. His appropriate comments were added after each demo for listening comparison.
A playback system employed in his presentation consisted of foobar2000 on MacBook, Accuphase DC-950 (ES9038PRO based DAC), TAD amplifier and TAD speakers.

Other comparison sets were;

variations in typical types: 44.1 kHz/16 bit PCM(Pro Tools), 384 kHz/32 bit PCM(Pyramix/HAPI), 11.2 MHz DSD(Pyramix/HAPI)

the same format : PCM, bit depth: 24 bit and variations in sampling rate: 96, 192, 384 kHz
the same sampling rate: 192 kHz and variations in bit depth: 16, 24, 32 bit
(Those sources in the variation were obtained not by down conversion but by individual setting difference on three HAPI devices)

The sources will be released from "Stereo Sound" publisher as a package of DVDs with CD and distributed on-line through e-Onkyo.
In a recent issue of a Japanese magazine for a digital audio, DigiFi,
Stereo Sound STORE / DigiFi No.24 特別付録ãƒã‚¤ãƒ¬ã‚¾ã‚µãƒ³ãƒ—ラーDVDã¤ãå· (in Japanese language)
(Google Translate https://translate.google.co.jp/translate?sl=ja&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=ja&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Fstore.stereosound.co.jp%2Fproducts%2Fdetail.php%3Fproduct_id%3D2522&edit-text=), some tracks of the complete recording set were included in a DVD attached to it. I bought the magazine a few days ago.

They plays "Greensleeves" in their session. I listened the tracks and got surprised with SQ of those recording.
I have come to such an understanding that;

"A very good high-resolution digital audio source can be produced from a mixing work based on a state of art both analog handing devices and human skills located in an upstream."
Just yesterday, I had a chance to listen to the some audio sources quoted above using Chord DAVE for comparison in Tokyo.
- PCM 44.1kHz/16bit (recorded by ProTools+HD)
- PCM 384kHz/32bit (recorded by Pyramix+HAPI)
- DSD 11.2MHz (recorded by Pyramix+HAPI)

I think Chord DAVE successfully represented resultant sound quality differences depending on resolutions and formats.

My favor is "DSD 11.2MHz (Pyramix+HAPI)" and I felt a great advantage of Merging HAPI.
 

bmoura

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Sep 6, 2013
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I think Chord DAVE successfully represented resultant sound quality differences depending on resolutions and formats.
Actually the Chord DAVE converts DSD music files to high bit rate PCM before conversion to Analog and playback.
So the DSD 11.2MHz files would be worth listening to a Native DSD DAC as well. :)
 

Bunpei

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Dec 4, 2016
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Tokyo
Actually the Chord DAVE converts DSD music files to high bit rate PCM before conversion to Analog and playback.
So the DSD 11.2MHz files would be worth listening to a Native DSD DAC as well. :)
Oh, I had no idea on the conversion mechanism in DAVE! Is it well-known and widely explained somewhere?
Is an ES9018S or ES9038PRO based DAC regarded as "a Native DSD DAC" according to your definition?
I listened those sources on Accuphase DC-950 (ES9038PRO based DAC) and got a similar impression as I got on DAVE.
 

bmoura

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Sep 6, 2013
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Oh, I had no idea on the conversion mechanism in DAVE! Is it well-known and widely explained somewhere?
If you visit the Computer Audiophile forum there is some discussion of the DAVE by Miska (Jussi Laako from Signalyst) on that.
On the samples, I would agree - the DSD 11.2 MHz files (aka DSD 256) do sound the best!
 

Bunpei

New Member
Dec 4, 2016
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Tokyo
If you visit the Computer Audiophile forum there is some discussion of the DAVE by Miska (Jussi Laako from Signalyst) on that.
On the samples, I would agree - the DSD 11.2 MHz files (aka DSD 256) do sound the best!
As I failed to identify Miska's post referring directly DAVE's conversion scheme, I asked him the topic by PM on Computer Audiophile. He kindly gave me his private answer.
According to his reply, he did not touched on DAVE specifically in those threads. However, he explained his measurement result on Mojo and his speculation on DAVE. Those made me convince that DSD input should be converted into PCM of intermediate rate in DAVE.

Brian and Miska, thank you very much for your information!
 

Lee

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Feb 4, 2011
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Alpharetta, Georgia
As I failed to identify Miska's post referring directly DAVE's conversion scheme, I asked him the topic by PM on Computer Audiophile. He kindly gave me his private answer.
According to his reply, he did not touched on DAVE specifically in those threads. However, he explained his measurement result on Mojo and his speculation on DAVE. Those made me convince that DSD input should be converted into PCM of intermediate rate in DAVE.

Brian and Miska, thank you very much for your information!
It might be best to talk to Robert Watts on this point. He's been a very open and honest guy on the forums I have seen him on.
 

Lee

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Feb 4, 2011
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Alpharetta, Georgia
I will be receiving the PD Pinot in just a couple of weeks. So far, only the Horus has been in the stable the longest, but time will tell!!!!!
I'm hearing great things from David Robinson.
 

Bunpei

New Member
Dec 4, 2016
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Tokyo
Just yesterday, I had a chance to listen to the some audio sources quoted above using Chord DAVE for comparison in Tokyo.
- PCM 44.1kHz/16bit (recorded by ProTools+HD)
- PCM 384kHz/32bit (recorded by Pyramix+HAPI)
- DSD 11.2MHz (recorded by Pyramix+HAPI)
Just a week ago, I confirmed that those sources were not copyrighted.
If any of you are interested in the sources, please send your PM to me.
I will send private links for downloading.
 

microTone

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Nov 21, 2016
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I will be receiving the PD Pinot in just a couple of weeks. So far, only the Horus has been in the stable the longest, but time will tell!!!!!
Bruce, have you come to a conclusion on the sound quality of the Horus (AKM card), vesus PD Pinot in DSD256?
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 26, 2010
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Seattle, WA
www.pugetsoundstudios.com
Bruce, have you come to a conclusion on the sound quality of the Horus (AKM card), vesus PD Pinot in DSD256?
PD Pinot went back to Andreas. It's really good, but I feel the Horus (AKM) is more representative of the music. The Pinot is definitely more user friendly, that's for sure!!
 

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