Crookwood Monitor Controller

[bblue]

Bruce,

Do you have any experience with the Crookwood Monitor Controllers (digital and analog)? I need some more flexibility in multi-source monitoring that I'm getting from the Avocet, but the Crookwood uses IC's (LME series) for its buffering (in and out). It's hard for me to believe that the IC based circuitry would do as well as Class A discrete for really critical monitoring.

Any opinion? Lot's of nice flexibility in the Crookwood design, but it's not worth it if a downgrade in AQ.

--Bill

 

[Bruce B]

Hey Bill.... I haven't had one in the studio but i've played around with them at other studios and at AES conventions. They are quite flexible and are made to order, but I didn't like the sound from them either.
We're also using the Switchman 3 which give you a little more flexibility. I also use the Dangerous Liasion for more in/outs and am quite pleased with it.

 

[bblue]

Hey Bill.... I haven't had one in the studio but i've played around with them at other studios and at AES conventions. They are quite flexible and are made to order, but I didn't like the sound from them either.
We're also using the Switchman 3 which give you a little more flexibility. I also use the Dangerous Liasion for more in/outs and am quite pleased with it.

Really. I looked at them briefly (Dangerous products) and passed because of the general appearance. I'll take another look, thanks for the tip.

--Bill

 

[CrispinHT]

Hi Bill & Bruce,

Just a point of clarification: The LME based monitor cards were only released this year, so it may be you were listening to some of our older monitoring: we've been making consoles/controllers for over 20 years, and it depends on the upgrades the user has implemented as to what type of monitor card is fitted. Glenn Meadows in Nashville is using the current cards, it might be worth having a chat with him about his experiences.

Re the class A issue, both the Dangerous and Cranesong products use opamps, so the issue of accuracy is not really related to whether you design with discrete, inegrated or class A. In your Avocet, if the opamps were corrupting the signal, they would dominate the sound character over the discrete I/O stages. Because they don't, it indicates that the technology is not an issue. As ever it's how you use ( layout) the technology, rather than the technology itself.

The best way for you to evaluate our (any) products, if you're in doubt, is to audition them in your room. I'll get you a demo unit Bill and I'd be interested to hear what your experience is.

Keep up the good work!

Crispin HT,
Crookwood.

 

[bblue]

Hey Bill.... I haven't had one in the studio but i've played around with them at other studios and at AES conventions. They are quite flexible and are made to order, but I didn't like the sound from them either.
We're also using the Switchman 3 which give you a little more flexibility. I also use the Dangerous Liaison for more in/outs and am quite pleased with it.

I took another look at all the Dangerous stuff and really wasn't that impressed. The Liason only has two busses and everything else is in limited inserts. The monitor controller doesn't have enough inputs in total, no inserts and only limited functionality of monitoring control. Maybe it sounds good, but it doesn't have nearly the functionality (without buying several boxes) as the Crookwood, which seems to blow the others away. I find the same pattern on all that I have reviewed.

--Bill

 

[bblue]

Hi Bill & Bruce,

Just a point of clarification: The LME based monitor cards were only released this year, so it may be you were listening to some of our older monitoring: we've been making consoles/controllers for over 20 years, and it depends on the upgrades the user has implemented as to what type of monitor card is fitted. Glenn Meadows in Nashville is using the current cards, it might be worth having a chat with him about his experiences.

Re the class A issue, both the Dangerous and Cranesong products use opamps, so the issue of accuracy is not really related to whether you design with discrete, inegrated or class A. In your Avocet, if the opamps were corrupting the signal, they would dominate the sound character over the discrete I/O stages. Because they don't, it indicates that the technology is not an issue. As ever it's how you use ( layout) the technology, rather than the technology itself.

Hi Crispin,

Unless I've been misinformed by Crane Song, the only place where opamps are used in the Avocet is the headphone amplifier, but I've never looked to see what they're using there. The headphone amp doesn't sound very good IMO, quite veiled.

It's curious that none of what we consider to be truly high end in AQ contains opamps. At least none that I know of, from D/A, A/D, mic pre's, line drivers, etc. All the great stuff is using discrete. If that's true, then Crookwood might be the only company doing it correctly with opamps.

The best way for you to evaluate our (any) products, if you're in doubt, is to audition them in your room. I'll get you a demo unit Bill and I'd be interested to hear what your experience is.

I think that's going to have to be the next step. I'll email you for details. Thanks.

--Bill

 

[CrispinHT]

You know, I've never examined an Avocet. I based my statement on an internal picture that appeared on SOS magazine ( http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/nov05/articles/cranesongavocet.htm).

There are about 10 opamps in there ( the little black things with 8 legs), and looking at the path, I'm guessing they are used for headphones, metering, but also for some summing and DAC buffering. The actual headphone amps are separate integrated IC power amps I believe. Don't get me wrong, Dave Hill is an excellent designer, and he would have chosen the appropriate parts, and laid them out correctly. However I'm pretty sure at some point there will be an opamp in the signal path.

It's also worth remembering that every DAC chip has an analog stage inside it. These most definitely aren't class A outputs, yet we can still make them good. Having said that, I'm quite nervous at the thought of you listening to my gear and hating it, but that's what audio's about - you have to choose the gear that's right for you!

Speak soon,

Crispin

 

[tailspn]

Another possible contender may be a DIY passive attenuator:

http://www.twistedpearaudio.com/control/jt.aspx

expanded on the input side with a high quality selector switch, or relay selection tree.