Atma-Sphere MP-3 - giving some thought to whether to buy one vs alternatives...

[Bergm@nn]

Would be good to hear some opinions and advice to help inform my next preamp purchase.

My set up starts with a Bergmann Sindre (XLR outputs) with ART-1000 cart & Tron phono; Technics & TEAC R2Rs; Pass XA30.8 power amp, Avantgarde Duo speakers. Current preamp is a 'The Truth' (Hornshoppe) but have tried out a few contenders recently including VTL 7.5, EMIA, Aurorasound and a couple more.

One thing I have established by trying different preamps is that the Pass definitely sounds better when connected with balanced cables. One of the preamps that came to mind was maybe a safe option like an ARC 5SE, and when I was doing a bit of reading on that amp that I came across Atma-Sphere as a potential alternative.

The balanced focused design clearly appeals, as does the possibility of being able to connect balanced from my Sindre into the preamp. Also as a R2R enthusiast, having tape inputs and recording etc is also attractive.

Now obviously I'd love to try an MP-1, and this may indeed be my final destination, but for current budget depletion and unit availability reasons I'm thinking of dipping my toe in the water with an MP-3. I suppose one of the issues is being able to hear one in my system, as I don't think there is a dealer in the UK, and unlikely to be too many units (I don't know anyone who has one).

So interested in the experience of others who may have or heard one. Comments on the various upgrades etc would also be helpful.

 

[Phantom-Audio]

Ralph allows me to deal with the UK as originally i am from the Midlands, I travel back and forth to the UK constantly. However, the units i had in the UK are all sold. www.phantom-audio.co.uk was operating in the UK till last year i decided to redo the site at a later stage.

I have an MP-1 fully loaded with all options packed up and ready to ship. This is an open Box with a custom Gold/Silver Casing. Full Caddock Package and Vcap with other features installed to run the Pre-Amps Fully balanced or single ended.

 

[Phantom-Audio]

Caddock Volume Control is by far one of the most important upgrades i would suggest,

 

[Fred Crane]

Would be good to hear some opinions and advice to help inform my next preamp purchase.

My set up starts with a Bergmann Sindre (XLR outputs) with ART-1000 cart & Tron phono; Technics & TEAC R2Rs; Pass XA30.8 power amp, Avantgarde Duo speakers. Current preamp is a 'The Truth' (Hornshoppe) but have tried out a few contenders recently including VTL 7.5, EMIA, Aurorasound and a couple more.

One thing I have established by trying different preamps is that the Pass definitely sounds better when connected with balanced cables. One of the preamps that came to mind was maybe a safe option like an ARC 5SE, and when I was doing a bit of reading on that amp that I came across Atma-Sphere as a potential alternative.

The balanced focused design clearly appeals, as does the possibility of being able to connect balanced from my Sindre into the preamp. Also as a R2R enthusiast, having tape inputs and recording etc is also attractive.

Now obviously I'd love to try an MP-1, and this may indeed be my final destination, but for current budget depletion and unit availability reasons I'm thinking of dipping my toe in the water with an MP-3. I suppose one of the issues is being able to hear one in my system, as I don't think there is a dealer in the UK, and unlikely to be too many units (I don't know anyone who has one).

So interested in the experience of others who may have or heard one. Comments on the various upgrades etc would also be helpful.

Have you considered running an R2R preamp, given your love of them? They're becoming more prevalent on the market...Doshi makes one or two, and this year at Munich, the RMD TP-2 Tape Reference Preamp was shown...from Lisbon. (more and more interesting kit from Portugal of late) Destination Audio is also making one for our Toronto Satellite. Those aside, who doesn't love a good Atma-Sphere preamp.

 

[tima]

I owned the MP-1 and the ARC Ref 5SE. Both are reliable components. Imo, either of the Atma-Sphere units will sound more immediate, more transparent than the ARC.

With the A-S units I suggest using a phono cable wired to the balanced standard (AES48) - that way your system is balanced from cartridge to amplifier. I don't know if your Sindre accomodates an alternative cable or tonearm. If it does not, then a MP-3 would need the optional RCA phono input. Check with Pass to assure your amp is wired to the same balanced standard. The MP-3, iirc, has 55db gain. Not sure but think your Audio-Technica cartridge has 0.2 mV output. I don't believe the MP-3 offers enough gain for that cartridge. The MP-1 has 66db output.

 

[Phantom-Audio]

the MP one i have has RCA Inputs for Phono Stage and RCA output to run the single-ended system with a switch between balanced and RCA to Lift Ground.

see pic attached.

This was requested at the time of the build process, So the client would be able to switch between balanced amplifiers and a single-ended system.

He also wanted flexibility on Phono for using balanced and RCA cables from tonearms and as a result Ralph installed RCA Inputs with a switch and grounding post.

I have posted this over here:

Atma-Sphere MP-1 MK. 3.3 Tube Pre-Amplifier: Brand New open Box, Price Drop!

Atma-Sphere MP-1 A World-Class Pre-Amplifier In Custom Gold/Silver Casing! Over 45 years in the making this is the first true Balanced Pre-amp on the planet and has undergone 45 years of refinement and updates. A True Titan in the Audio world...

www.whatsbestforum.com

 

[Bergm@nn]

the MP one i have has RCA Inputs for Phono Stage and RCA output to run the single-ended system with a switch between balanced and RCA to Lift Ground.

see pic attached.

This was requested at the time of the build process, So the client would be able to switch between balanced amplifiers and a single-ended system.

He also wanted flexibility on Phono for using balanced and RCA cables from tonearms and as a result Ralph installed RCA Inputs with a switch and grounding post.

I have posted this over here:

Atma-Sphere MP-1 MK. 3.3 Tube Pre-Amplifier: Brand New open Box, Price Drop!

Atma-Sphere MP-1 A World-Class Pre-Amplifier In Custom Gold/Silver Casing! Over 45 years in the making this is the first true Balanced Pre-amp on the planet and has undergone 45 years of refinement and updates. A True Titan in the Audio world...

www.whatsbestforum.com

Looks fab and would be my dream preamp.

Sadly I've just spent most of my hifi budget on a pair of Duo XDs so this kind of purchase would be need to be next financial year

That's why I was thinking of a fully upgraded MP-3 for now.

 

[Atmasphere]

I don't know if your Sindre accomodates an alternative cable or tonearm. If it does not, then a MP-3 would need the optional RCA phono input. Check with Pass to assure your amp is wired to the same balanced standard. The MP-3, iirc, has 55db gain. Not sure but think your Audio-Technica cartridge has 0.2 mV output. I don't believe the MP-3 offers enough gain for that cartridge.

We've yet to encounter an arm that could not be hooked up through the XLR phono inputs.

If the arm has RCAs plus a ground post OR a 5-pin connector, then a balanced cable is a plug and play operation. Instructions on how to make the cable for RCA outputs of the tonearm are in the owner's manual of either the MP-1 or MP-3 (pdf download http://www.atma-sphere.com/en/manuals.html). The cable need not be expensive owing to its balanced operation. We offer them for about $225.00 but any cable manufacturer can make one which is why we included instructions in the manual.

Since the preamp is differential internally, it tends to have lower noise than the same gain stages would have operating single-ended. So even though the gain is a bit lower, we've had good success with lower output cartridges (the one in our shop is 0.25mV). Of course its important to use low noise tubes (12AT7s) in the front end of the phono section since that is where 95% of the phono noise comes from. For this reason we don't recommend NOS tubes as people have been scouring the countryside looking for low noise tubes for the last 50 years. Its far easier to find them brand new; either Sino or JJ; both of which seem readily available.

 

[Bergm@nn]

If the arm has RCAs plus a ground post OR a 5-pin connector,

My turntable is a Bergmann Sindre which unusually has balanced outputs -



There are very few phono stages let alone preamps with phono input, which have balanced inputs/ outputs!

I assume if looking at an MP-3 that if using my current cartridge or similar with 0.2 mv output that the MP-3 would need the optional low output MC stage option specifying?

 

[Atmasphere]

My turntable is a Bergmann Sindre which unusually has balanced outputs -



There are very few phono stages let alone preamps with phono input, which have balanced inputs/ outputs!

I assume if looking at an MP-3 that if using my current cartridge or similar with 0.2 mv output that the MP-3 would need the optional low output MC stage option specifying?

Nice! You'll want to keep the tonearm cable capacitance low.

0.2mV is right at the limit of what the MP-3 can do without an SUT. So they are not a bad idea. The loading strip on the rear of the preamp is then used to load the SUT; the correct loading will change with the cartridge.

 

[boneman]

Over the years I've owned ARC, VAC, Zesto and BAT kit. In February I acquired a used MP-3 Mk3.2 with VCap upgrades, dampening package and the phono stage, I believe I'm the 3rd owner. I am currently not using the phono stage but running my TT/Cart/SUT setup into a Zesto Andros Deluxe balanced out into the MP-3 balanced input. The MP-3 is driving a Zesto Bila 120, again all balanced, which in turn are mated to Devore O/93s. In short, the pre is a keeper. It is quiet, incredibly dynamic, low level resolution is outstanding and with great bass, quality and quantity. My ears don't go beyond 12k but from low to high, it's all there. As for imaging, I've yet to hear my Devore's have exceptional portryal of depth but they are great in lateral placement. I'm running some NOS GE 6SN7, stock JJ12AU7's and 3 JJ12AT7's versus the normal 7x12AT7 complement, the latter per Ralph's recommendation given I am not using the phono stage. Two points. I have too much system gain for the Devore's and have Rothwell -10dB attenuators on the amplifier input, not theoretically ideal but I'm not hearing any issues. No remote volume. I've gotten used to geting up, setting and forgetting the volume and the stepped attenuator volume control has its benefits.

 

[Nuforce]

I haven't tried the atma-sphere preamps but to be honest I don't want a 6SN7 based unit with my MA-1 amps.

I use a KR Audio P135 which uses the type 45 triode. A far superior tube in my opinion, and a world class preamp.

KR Audio P-135 Preamplifier

KR Audio P-135 Preamplifier review

positive-feedback.com

 

[Phantom-Audio]

Atma-Sphere pre-amps have challenged a lot of pre-amps in my room that cost 2 or 3 times the price tag.

 

[Atmasphere]

I haven't tried the atma-sphere preamps but to be honest I don't want a 6SN7 based unit with my MA-1 amps.

I use a KR Audio P135 which uses the type 45 triode. A far superior tube in my opinion, and a world class preamp.

KR Audio P-135 Preamplifier

KR Audio P-135 Preamplifier review

positive-feedback.com

We've looked into tubes like the type 45 but when you have a direct-coupled output things get complicated with the filaments while also running balanced! With most tube preamps the tube used is of course important because its linearity plays such an important role. But getting rid of that coupling cap is a big deal too- maybe bigger.

 

[Nuforce]

I didn't realize you directly couple the tube to the output. In which case yeah the 45 and the like would be problematic.

 

[Atmasphere]

I didn't realize you directly couple the tube to the output. In which case yeah the 45 and the like would be problematic.

We wanted something that could drive the balanced input of our amps, support the balanced line standard, be able to driver lower impedance (600 Ohms no problem) and have a reliable direct-coupled output. We have been issued two patents on the solution.