Air Force 1 Premium - New Flagship

DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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Tango, that is a 'shaded dog' pressing of Scheherazade:D

However, I have no way of telling from your photo as to what pressing number that is....if it is a higher number....13s 11s etc., then it will not sound as great as the one's I have been discussing; OTOH it will sound a heck of a lot better than your "no dog"!:)
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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Tango, that is a 'shaded dog' pressing of Scheherazade:D

However, I have no way of telling from your photo as to what pressing number that is....if it is a higher number....13s 11s etc., then it will not sound as great as the one's I have been discussing; OTOH it will sound a heck of a lot better than your "no dog"!:)

Tang is better off buying the RTR tape from Chad (Acoustic Sounds).
 

Tango

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rockitman

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Maybe, maybe not. Have you heard a 10s10s copy, Christian?

I have to check out what "s" version I have. I know I have 1s...not sure about 10s though...
The tape is amazing however....

My mostly 1s SD collection (my best RCA hits)...
 

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ack

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May 6, 2010
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Khun Tang, here are the differences with the RCA "dogs" from https://www.shadeddog.com/labelography/

Shade behind the dog



No shade behind the dog:

 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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Tang, that is a very interesting comparison of SAT versus Axiom!

You are lucky to have Dietrich willing to come over as needed!
 

Ron Resnick

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although I haven't heard the tungsten version the reports here on WBF from TechDas users state that the tungsten version is in a league of its own. JackD201 has stated that he cannot live without the tungsten version in his system

Does anyone have a theory as to why an air-everything turntable with vinyl record vacuum hold-down sounds better with a record clamp?
 

DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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I have to check out what "s" version I have. I know I have 1s...not sure about 10s though...
The tape is amazing however....

My mostly 1s SD collection (my best RCA hits)...

Very nice collection. The Gounod Faust is very hard to source, at least in a clean pressing. The Lalo is also difficult to find in a 1s1s.
 

Mike Lavigne

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Apr 25, 2010
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Does anyone have a theory as to why an air-everything turntable with vinyl record vacuum hold-down sounds better with a record clamp?

my guess.

part of optimal stylus-groove behavior is controlling resonance without over-damping. records 'like' to be loaded, but 'clamping' removes a degree of 'life'. whether using a screw down clamp, or vacuum hold down there is gripping pressure exerted on the record that has a cost in degrees of energy lost and an element of smearing while also lowering noise to some degree and flattening too. somehow the proper weight seems to get closer to the ideal than clamping/vacuum.....IMHO, YMMV, and my 2 cents.

combining the weight with vacuum I think reduces the smearing to some small degree.....stops an element of resonance.....without more life-robbing gripping action....for a net gain. not to say it might be a higher net gain without the vacuum.

another way I view it.....is.....imagine a record surface as a passive spring. I think there is an ideal perfect weight, density of that weight, and surface interface with the label surface that together ideally 'load' that spring to give it maximum life and minimal resonance. brute force vacuum or clamping bypasses that ideal.

I do think that platter material does influence how a record weight works. as it's part of the equation of loading.

i'm not a techie and certainly no engineer. these are just SWAG's based on years of observation and hearing the Rockport Sirius III with vacuum hold-down and other turntables with various clamps and weights, and finally observing the development of the Durand Record Weight. I know how my records sound with and without the Durand. and i'm guessing a few other record weights do similar if not even better things.
 

Ron Resnick

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I think it seems like a reasonable theory, Mike!
 

TLi

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May 27, 2016
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Does anyone have a theory as to why an air-everything turntable with vinyl record vacuum hold-down sounds better with a record clamp?

The vinyl surface is a vibration plate when being played. It is like the resonance box of musical instrument. Vacuum hold-down only secures the edges of the disc. The surface is free to vibrate.

When you put your ear close to the stylus when the disc is spinning, we can hear music coming directly from the disc without turning on the amp. The vibration of the small stylus and cantilever alone is probably not enough to produce that volume of sound. The disc surface, the cartridge headshell and tonearm help to amplify the sound as they are vibrating in the same frequency.

Most record clamps are damper. They damp the vibration of the disc surface. Higher frequency is damped more than lower one. The result is a more mellow sound at the expense of reduced treble. Some clamps are resonator. They vibrate with the disc to add some frequencies back. Clamps with moving parts or spheres are likely to be resonator.
 

DaveyF

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Jul 31, 2010
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They were priced accordingly...especially Gounod....which I secured for a mere $800 at auction.

Gounod is one of the few shaded dogs that I do not own. I wonder how the Classic reissue compares to the original. The Classic is the one I own; supposedly a very close second, and according to some actually better....:confused:
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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Gounod is one of the few shaded dogs that I do not own. I wonder how the Classic reissue compares to the original. The Classic is the one I own; supposedly a very close second, and according to some actually better....:confused:

The classic reissue is fanatastic. The 1s is not much better...just rare as hens teeth. It is the most expensive and sought after SD I believe.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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The classic reissue is fanatastic. The 1s is not much better...just rare as hens teeth. It is the most expensive and sought after SD I believe.

are you speaking of the Classic 33, or the early 4 disc Classic 45rpm of the Gounod?

if the original is equal to the 45 4-disc i'd sure love to hear that.
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
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are you speaking of the Classic 33, or the early 4 disc Classic 45rpm of the Gounod?

if the original is equal to the 45 4-disc i'd sure love to hear that.

I can’t answer that question without listening to them back to back. Working from memory the Classic 45 is significantly better than the Classic 33.
 

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