Does everything in Munich sound like Magico/ Spectral? Anything tonally rich or not European taste?

caesar

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The impression one gets from reading show reports from Munich is that the show appeals to guys who find realism in the fast, lean, clean sound symbolized by Magico/ Spectral combination and championed by reviewers like "Sterile" Jon Valin and "Worthless to the Audio Fan" Robert Harley.

If one makes a trip to Munich, can one find tonally rich gear, full-bodied (not syrupy or fat!) sound with big bass wallop as well, or is the European market only interested in that more lean sound?
 

Leif S

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That's an interesting question. I will be at Munich this year and plan on visiting many rooms.
 

jeff1225

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I've never been to Munich but all of the pictorials I've ever seen are full of horn speakers and tube amps.
 

Barry2013

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Not sure if it is the case elsewhere but exhibitors at Munich are not allowed to leave their gear on overnight so they never get properly warmed up.
IME Tidal has always sounded good.
 

ddk

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The impression one gets from reading show reports from Munich is that the show appeals to guys who find realism in the fast, lean, clean sound symbolized by Magico/ Spectral combination and championed by reviewers like "Sterile" Jon Valin and "Worthless to the Audio Fan" Robert Harley.

If one makes a trip to Munich, can one find tonally rich gear, full-bodied (not syrupy or fat!) sound with big bass wallop as well, or is the European market only interested in that more lean sound?

You're describing the general quality of sound in high end today Caesar and not just at Munich show, what do you expect when computer audio is the accepted norm :)?

david
 

RogerD

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You're describing the general quality of sound in high end today Caesar and not just at Munich show, what do you expect when computer audio is the accepted norm :)?

david

Surely there are exceptions..
 

hvbias

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You're describing the general quality of sound in high end today Caesar and not just at Munich show, what do you expect when computer audio is the accepted norm :)?

david

David, I've been away from WBF for a while do you mind expanding what you mean? If I recall you used a Weiss DAC, how would feeding it from a dedicated CD transport vs a computer interface cause what Caesar is referring to?
 

cjfrbw

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Yay, audiophile skeleton sound! Let's hear those reflections from the "girl with guitar's" hair!
 

ddk

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David, I've been away from WBF for a while do you mind expanding what you mean? If I recall you used a Weiss DAC, how would feeding it from a dedicated CD transport vs a computer interface cause what Caesar is referring to?

Like tt's not all transports are equal either, so I'm talking about quality transports and digital links. IMO silver disc spinning in high quality transports with good digital links are much more dynamic, organic and closer to analog than any computer source I ever heard. I don't know what it is, wether it's USB/ethernet/Firewire, power supplies in the computer or the way hard drives including transistor ones are read that kill the sound but computer audio always sounds the same to me, very digital and homogenized and sterile and if that's your source, where do you go from there? I don't know anyone streaming or using computer as a source sitting through an entire album, if you noticed they're always searching and changing tracks :); rarely if ever have I seen them sit through an entire album.

I still use the Weiss and honestly I just don't see any significant improvement in DACs over the years, all the latest & greatest I've heard still retain their digital nature and no amount of computing can transform digital into something that it's not. As far as transports go they're a dying breed now days which is a shame.

Surely there are exceptions..

Of course there are but to Caesars point majority of new systems I hear at shows and people's homes sound that way.

david
 

RogerD

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Like tt's not all transports are equal either, so I'm talking about quality transports and digital links. IMO silver disc spinning in high quality transports with good digital links are much more dynamic, organic and closer to analog than any computer source I ever heard. I don't know what it is, wether it's USB/ethernet/Firewire, power supplies in the computer or the way hard drives including transistor ones are read that kill the sound but computer audio always sounds the same to me, very digital and homogenized and sterile and if that's your source, where do you go from there? I don't know anyone streaming or using computer as a source sitting through an entire album, if you noticed they're always searching and changing tracks :); rarely if ever have I seen them sit through an entire album.

I still use the Weiss and honestly I just don't see any significant improvement in DACs over the years, all the latest & greatest I've heard still retain their digital nature and no amount of computing can transform digital into something that it's not. As far as transports go they're a dying breed now days which is a shame.



Of course there are but to Caesars point majority of new systems I hear at shows and people's homes sound that way.

david

There are a few of us that have broken through on the digital jinx. I use a tube dac which is analog like. There are other tricks that can make digital better or equal to analog. Just depends on how well you can decipher the digital and audio system puzzle.
 

RogerD

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Al M.

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Like tt's not all transports are equal either, so I'm talking about quality transports and digital links. IMO silver disc spinning in high quality transports with good digital links are much more dynamic, organic and closer to analog than any computer source I ever heard. I don't know what it is, wether it's USB/ethernet/Firewire, power supplies in the computer or the way hard drives including transistor ones are read that kill the sound but computer audio always sounds the same to me, very digital and homogenized and sterile and if that's your source, where do you go from there? I don't know anyone streaming or using computer as a source sitting through an entire album, if you noticed they're always searching and changing tracks :); rarely if ever have I seen them sit through an entire album.

I still use the Weiss and honestly I just don't see any significant improvement in DACs over the years, all the latest & greatest I've heard still retain their digital nature and no amount of computing can transform digital into something that it's not. As far as transports go they're a dying breed now days which is a shame.

Fortunately, in 2014 Simaudio Moon came out with a great CD transport that works wonderfully in my system, the 260 DT:

http://www.tonepublications.com/review/simaudio-moon-neo-260d-cd-transportdac/

From the review:

As Simaudio’s Lionel Goodfield is quick to point out, the Neo 260D “is first and foremost a transport; the drive mechanism and suspension are virtually identical to those in the 650D and 750D.” Like its more expensive stable mates, the Neo 260D is built in-house and not supplied by an external manufacturer. And while I enjoy the DAC part of the equation, I concentrate during my review on using it solely as a transport, pairing it with a wide range of DACs—from the inexpensive Meridian Explorer all the way up to the $109,000 dCS Vivaldi stack.

If you need a great DAC and want the ability to play an actual disc now and then, the extra $1,000 for the Neo 260D with onboard DAC is well worth the added cost. Those with a great DAC already installed in their system and wanting to either replace an aging (or dead) transport will be amazed by the Neo 260D’s sound quality. Fifteen years ago a transport this good would have a $10,000 price tag attached; This MOON does it for just $3,000. Now that’s progress.


***

The version as transport only, which I have, costs just $ 2K. I have the silver-colored version.
 

microstrip

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There are a few of us that have broken through on the digital jinx. I use a tube dac which is analog like. There are other tricks that can make digital better or equal to analog. Just depends on how well you can decipher the digital and audio system puzzle.

Digital can not be worst, better or equal to analog. It is simply different - better in some aspects, worst in others. Our preferences will determine which we consider better. Twenty years ago people criticizing CD, such as Tim de Paravicini admitted that according to hearing models models and knowledge 24 bit around 400 KHz would be equivalent to analog - it would "not sound like digital anymore" in his words. Digital now has DXD. IMHO it is the format that must be compared with vinyl for those interested in such exercises.

But for lower resolution and rate, a spinning CD seems to trick our minds better. Do not ask me why, but IMHO it happens and I am very happy with it, as there are thousands of CDs I love!
 

Elberoth

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There are myriad of systems to suit all tastes in Munich, so no worries!

Magicos are so transparent, that you can make them sound whatever you like. Just use sth like MSB, Vitus, D'Agostino and you will get a weighty, full-bodied sound. I have yet to hear Magico/Spectral presentation (or Magico/Devialet) that I would even remotely like.
 

microstrip

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There are myriad of systems to suit all tastes in Munich, so no worries!

Magicos are so transparent, that you can make them sound whatever you like. Just use sth like MSB, Vitus, D'Agostino and you will get a weighty, full-bodied sound. I have yet to hear Magico/Spectral presentation (or Magico/Devialet) that I would even remotely like.

Did you listen to the new PRO series Devialet's? I found recently they sound quite decent with the Mini II's! But you have to listen with a good CD transport or an AES/EBU quality source, not with the usual USB connection. IMHO the new Devialet's are enjoyable, although I have listened to them mainly with Wilson Audio speakers. I have to say it was a surprise to me!

An no, IMHO Magico have a characteristic sound - we can like it or not. I have listened several times to the Q7 II, M3 and MPro and they sound different from each other but definitively like a Magico speaker.
 

PeterA

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Did you listen to the new PRO series Devialet's? I found recently they sound quite decent with the Mini II's! But you have to listen with a good CD transport or an AES/EBU quality source, not with the usual USB connection. IMHO the new Devialet's are enjoyable, although I have listened to them mainly with Wilson Audio speakers. I have to say it was a surprise to me!

An no, IMHO Magico have a characteristic sound - we can like it or not. I have listened several times to the Q7 II, M3 and MPro and they sound different from each other but definitively like a Magico speaker.

Microstrip, do you think you could identify a Magico speaker if it were hidden behind a sonically transparent curtain? How would you describe Magico's "characteristic sound"?

I've never been to Munich, but from the show coverage I've seen, it seems hardly a show about the Magico/Spectral sound, if there is such a thing. I've heard many demos of this speaker/amp combination and each time, the sound changed much more depending on the recording and the source format or brand, whether it was analog, RBCD, or hi rez file. I did get the sense, most times, that the Magico/Spectral/MIT combination did not impart a coloration greater than what the rest of the system contributed. I also wonder what influence those glass walled rooms have on the overall sound of the Munich show.

Caesar, I don't think that TAS coverage represents the wide variety of brands on display, including many horns, tubes, and turntables. They seem to cover brands that may have more appeal to their readership and are perhaps more representative of their advertisers.
 

RogerD

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Digital can not be worst, better or equal to analog. It is simply different - better in some aspects, worst in others. Our preferences will determine which we consider better. Twenty years ago people criticizing CD, such as Tim de Paravicini admitted that according to hearing models models and knowledge 24 bit around 400 KHz would be equivalent to analog - it would "not sound like digital anymore" in his words. Digital now has DXD. IMHO it is the format that must be compared with vinyl for those interested in such exercises.

But for lower resolution and rate, a spinning CD seems to trick our minds better. Do not ask me why, but IMHO it happens and I am very happy with it, as there are thousands of CDs I love!

Like I said....digital can be better than analog.
 

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