Help me beat my CD Transport

Al M.

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Empirical Audio

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A Win10 i7 machine dedicated for audio as a Roon server.

How does output go to the DAC? USB or S/PDDIF? is it a USB DAC?

What cable was used?

What playback software is being used?

What format were the tracks?

Has the PC software been optimized, stopping background tasks?

IS the PC powered from a floor-wart?

Any one of these things can corrupt the SQ. I never said the computer route was simple.

Steve N.
 

Al M.

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How does output go to the DAC? USB or S/PDDIF? is it a USB DAC?

What cable was used?

Ethernet, no USB. It goes through an ethernet network bridge to the DAC, via AES/EBU.

What playback software is being used?

As I said, Roon.

What format were the tracks?

Don't know.

Has the PC software been optimized, stopping background tasks?

Since, as I mentioned, it's a computer dedicated to audio, I assume so.

IS the PC powered from a floor-wart?

Via power conditioner I think, but not sure.

Any one of these things can corrupt the SQ. I never said the computer route was simple.

Steve N.

Right. Which means a computer doesn't automatically beat a very competent transport.

Which actually was the point.
 

Empirical Audio

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Ethernet, no USB. It goes through an ethernet network bridge to the DAC, via AES/EBU.

Right. Which means a computer doesn't automatically beat a very competent transport.

Which actually was the point.

I never said it would automatically beat a competent transport. I said that my selection of computer audio components and player S/W would beat a transport at the same price point.

Here are ways to make the Ethernet sound better:

1) feed the DAC from the router, not the switch

2) Power the router from an earth-grounded LPS with fast regulation response (earth ground connected to DC common)

3) Use a good CAT7 cable

4) put a good isolator in series with the cable from Router to DAC, like the EMO EN-70e. Use a short cable (0.5m) from router to isolator

5) always play a .wav track, so you are comparing apples to apples

You might pass these tips to your friend.

I don't know much about the SQ of Roon. I use Jriver.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Al M.

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I never said it would automatically beat a competent transport. I said that my selection of computer audio components and player S/W would beat a transport at the same price point.

Here are ways to make the Ethernet sound better:

1) feed the DAC from the router, not the switch

2) Power the router from an earth-grounded LPS with fast regulation response (earth ground connected to DC common)

3) Use a good CAT7 cable

4) put a good isolator in series with the cable from Router to DAC, like the EMO EN-70e. Use a short cable (0.5m) from router to isolator

5) always play a .wav track, so you are comparing apples to apples

You might pass these tips to your friend.

Thanks, Steve, will do.
 

opus112

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Feb 24, 2016
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There is much more to the issue than just jitter. For example, it is known that computers can be quite noisy, which is why Shunyata even offers a power conditioner addressing this very issue:

http://shunyata.com/products/power-distributors/hydra-dpc-6-v3/

+1. Jitter is a part of the issue but for most people ISTM the lowest hanging fruit is indeed noise. Which is easier to minimize in a transport because the power requirements are that much lower than for a PC. But the newer ARM-based systems are considerably lower power than PCs so I reckon if a computer's going to beat out a transport it will be an ARM-based one rather than a PC.
 

Brucemck2

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2) Power the router from an earth-grounded LPS with fast regulation response (earth ground connected to DC common)

Is there a commercially available one you’d recommend?
 

Empirical Audio

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+1. Jitter is a part of the issue but for most people ISTM the lowest hanging fruit is indeed noise. Which is easier to minimize in a transport because the power requirements are that much lower than for a PC. But the newer ARM-based systems are considerably lower power than PCs so I reckon if a computer's going to beat out a transport it will be an ARM-based one rather than a PC.

With Ethernet, the noise of the computer is a don't care. The noise of the router may be an issue, or the WIFI interface.

Based on my experience, I believe that these are the most important effects, in order of importance:

1) Jitter
2) digital filtering
3) output stage distortion
4) ground-loop noise

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Empirical Audio

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Is there a commercially available one you’d recommend?

I use my Dynamo. Unfortunately, I am not licensed by Paul Hynes to sell only a power supply. It has to be in conjunction with one of my products.

I'll tell you what is almost as good, but you have to jury-rig a ground wire to an AC outlet and tie it to the - wire:

Mouser P/N:

418-TR30R120 - This is the 12VDC version with 2.1mm plug. Your adapter may require a different voltage or 2.5mm plug.

One thing I am investigating is: since I grounded the - side of the Router voltage, it does not seem to transmit WIFI anymore. It may be an issue with that particular router though. I can always move the LPS to the switch instead, but I don't think the output drivers are as good.

Steve N.
 

Empirical Audio

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I discovered that my router just reset itself. A new initialization and the WIFI is working fine again. Nothing to do with the earth grounding.

Steve N.

Empirical Audio
 

jussy1254

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Feb 13, 2011
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I use a Laufer Teknik Memory Player. It’s the latest version and I output via AES EBU into my Soulution DAC. It beats my Soulution player and is an absolute delight.
Expensive though.. 52K
 

CKKeung

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Jun 17, 2011
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I use a Laufer Teknik Memory Player. It’s the latest version and I output via AES EBU into my Soulution DAC. It beats my Soulution player and is an absolute delight.
Expensive though.. 52K

Hello Jussy,
I like the MP too.
The Hong Kong dealer has only the lower model MP16 as demo but it's already excellent when pairing with a Totaldac D1-Six dac.

Pls try a small trick : remove the top plate to allow and disconnect the chassis fans. The resulting improvement is surprising!
 

jkeny

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Something for your friend to try before buying different PSes - try grounding the negative poles of all PSes to a single ground point & from there to mains ground.
So ground the outer barrel of all SMPS DC plugs.
This will eliminate most leakage currents
 

Brucemck2

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Something for your friend to try before buying different PSes - try grounding the negative poles of all PSes to a single ground point & from there to mains ground.
So ground the outer barrel of all SMPS DC plugs.
This will eliminate most leakage currents

Is there a “device” or adapter or connector that would make this easy? I have three devices to connect.
 

jkeny

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Is there a “device” or adapter or connector that would make this easy? I have three devices to connect.

Use star washers that fit over the barrel of the SMPS DC plug - you can weave (or solder) stranded wire in this star washer - bring all 3 wires coming from the 3 SMPSes together into the ground pin of a mains plug.

But be careful that your mains plug earth connection is secure & not likely to connect to the live pin - I would remove the P & N pins from this mains plug to ensure this.

DV_WebLarge_P_1611.jpg
 
Last edited:

Empirical Audio

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Is there a commercially available one you’d recommend?

You might try an Sbooster and jury-rig a ground wire.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

joeling

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Jan 8, 2014
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It appears that I have left things dangling a bit.

My quest has ended for now

Roon rock + fanless QNAP NAS
Naim Unifi Core
Aurender W20

Ethernet ground isolator thingy

In the end, I have regressed back to Vivaldi Transport after more than 10 years climbing the computer Audio / file as source ladder.

Steve - I was the guy back in the mid noughties that u helped to put the M-Audio Transit into an Apogee Big Ben clock as interface between PC & DAC.
 

zbub

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Jun 27, 2013
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The potential music/sonic gains of digital playback without a disc transport were certainly very intriguing. Even when I was using an Ayre C5xe MP to play physical discs and a Linn Akurate to play files from a QNAP NAS, I’ve always thought physical discs still sounded better, more alive, more drive, more… analog and musically involving… I realized from the learning and experimenting the entire ripping, storage, and playback of digital files was that everything made a difference. Windows rips better sounding files than Mac, WAV sounds better than FLAC, and I hated WiFi router between storage and playback.
Fast forward a couple of years and I ended up with CH D1/C1. I thought the dCS Vivaldi stack sounded just a bit better overall but I didn’t want to mess with that many components, and the CH combo sounded just fine to me so I went that route. For file playback I ended up with a Melco NAS (finally no WiFi router in signal transferring!), Acoustic Revive LAN isolator, and Audioquest Ethernet cable. However playback through physical discs still sounded better. Files in my system just sounded staler and not as open and exciting musically.
 

jkeny

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Feb 9, 2012
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The potential music/sonic gains of digital playback without a disc transport were certainly very intriguing. Even when I was using an Ayre C5xe MP to play physical discs and a Linn Akurate to play files from a QNAP NAS, I’ve always thought physical discs still sounded better, more alive, more drive, more… analog and musically involving… I realized from the learning and experimenting the entire ripping, storage, and playback of digital files was that everything made a difference. Windows rips better sounding files than Mac, WAV sounds better than FLAC, and I hated WiFi router between storage and playback.
Fast forward a couple of years and I ended up with CH D1/C1. I thought the dCS Vivaldi stack sounded just a bit better overall but I didn’t want to mess with that many components, and the CH combo sounded just fine to me so I went that route. For file playback I ended up with a Melco NAS (finally no WiFi router in signal transferring!), Acoustic Revive LAN isolator, and Audioquest Ethernet cable. However playback through physical discs still sounded better. Files in my system just sounded staler and not as open and exciting musically.

In my experience this lack of dynamics & liveliness in computer audio playback is mostly to do with CM noise, current leakage issues & the leakage currents being shunted to ground experiments I suggested upthread are very worthwhile.

I use battery power in my devices & it has always sounded as good as & better than CD playback but even so common mode noise seemed to be getting through the USB connection & when a high speed USB isolator was used it brought another bit of clarity & aliveness to the sound.
 

Empirical Audio

Industry Expert
Oct 12, 2017
1,169
207
150
Great Pacific Northwest
www.empiricalaudio.com
The potential music/sonic gains of digital playback without a disc transport were certainly very intriguing. Even when I was using an Ayre C5xe MP to play physical discs and a Linn Akurate to play files from a QNAP NAS, I’ve always thought physical discs still sounded better, more alive, more drive, more… analog and musically involving… I realized from the learning and experimenting the entire ripping, storage, and playback of digital files was that everything made a difference. Windows rips better sounding files than Mac, WAV sounds better than FLAC, and I hated WiFi router between storage and playback.
Fast forward a couple of years and I ended up with CH D1/C1. I thought the dCS Vivaldi stack sounded just a bit better overall but I didn’t want to mess with that many components, and the CH combo sounded just fine to me so I went that route. For file playback I ended up with a Melco NAS (finally no WiFi router in signal transferring!), Acoustic Revive LAN isolator, and Audioquest Ethernet cable. However playback through physical discs still sounded better. Files in my system just sounded staler and not as open and exciting musically.

Many people have found that "everything" makes a difference with computer-driven audio, and it is certainly true for USB. Not so much for Ethernet. This is why I have moved away from USB designs and focused on Ethernet, as well as the desire to eliminate the driver nuisance of USB.

Yesterday I did a study of USB versus Ethernet. Here are the results:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155232.0

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

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