MSB Select II arrival

Mike Lavigne · Aug 12, 2017

Al M. said:
Digital tech in general sells in billions.....with a B. High-end digital obviously does not. So frankly, I don't see your point.

the drive for faster and more accurate computing, and more elegant and efficient programming, and better and faster data transfer, and even better interfaces, will continue to move forward. and all that trickles down into servers. mechanical transports don't get the same benefit from all this tech progress.

MadFloyd · Aug 12, 2017

Interesting thread. We have a couple conversations going on:
- Vivaldi vs MSB
- Racks
- File vs CD

So pardon me for straying from these, but has anyone compared the Schitt Yggdrasil to the Select II? I ask not to suggest that the Yggdrasil would be as good or better but merely to understand what differences one would hear. I have heard this DAC (and also the Vivaldi since I own it) and I think it is very good. I have NOT heard the MSB Select or Select II.

Al M. · Aug 12, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
the drive for faster and more accurate computing, and more elegant and efficient programming, and better and faster data transfer, and even better interfaces, will continue to move forward. and all that trickles down into servers. mechanical transports don't get the same benefit from all this tech progress.

Fair point, to a certain degree. The implementation of server technology in the high-end is still driven on the very small scale.

But yes, better computer technology benefits DACs as well, of course -- even though the implementation of technology in the high-end is still driven on the very small scale (didn't I just say that?

)

microstrip · Aug 12, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
allow me to then re-phrase my comment. transports have matured, servers are not close to maturing. and the whole world of technology and it's inertia is behind server performance forward progress and that momentum will overwhelm disc progress.

I have no doubts that this can happen, however it is not sure it will happen. I have no problem admitting transports have a sonic signature and the matching of sound signature of the transport and DAC can now create a sound quality that I prefer. However transports are limited to red book and SACD - are we sure that manufacturers will consider emulating this type of sound in their music servers, that will be most of the time tested HiRez formats?

Anyway, audiophiles always want it for yesterday!

microstrip · Aug 12, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
the drive for faster and more accurate computing, and more elegant and efficient programming, and better and faster data transfer, and even better interfaces, will continue to move forward. and all that trickles down into servers. mechanical transports don't get the same benefit from all this tech progress.

The question is that the fundamentals behind digital sound quality are still not well known. It is not a question a computer power, it is a question on how to use this computer power and if its really needed or if it is becoming a marketing argument. The transfers rates of audio are really low - servers could transfer a complete CD in a few seconds and rest while the DAC is playing.

Mike Lavigne · Aug 12, 2017

MadFloyd said:
Interesting thread. We have a couple conversations going on:
- Vivaldi vs MSB

Kingsrule asked 'that' question. it did bring a few more Select II owners onto WBF and into the conversation. a good thing.

- Racks

Steve and I have done the 'CMS' dance on a few threads. all in good fun.

- File vs CD

anytime a thread becomes a 'hangout' thread this subject gets some play.

So pardon me for straying from these, but has anyone compared the Schitt Yggdrasil to the Select II? I ask not to suggest that the Yggdrasil would be as good or better but merely to understand what differences one would hear. I have heard this DAC (and also the Vivaldi since I own it) and I think it is very good. I have NOT heard the MSB Select or Select II.

why not? we need a little Schitt to throw around.

sorry. could not resist.

maybe someone has heard the Yggdrasil and Select II in the same system?

microstrip · Aug 12, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
(...) maybe someone has heard the Yggdrasil and Select II in the same system?

May be someone has heard the Lampizator and the Select II in the same system?

Sorry. Could not resist, may be Ked is reading!

Mike Lavigne · Aug 12, 2017

microstrip said:
May be someone has heard the Lampizator and the Select II in the same system?

Sorry. Could not resist, may be Ked is reading!

bonzo75 · Aug 12, 2017

microstrip said:
May be someone has heard the Lampizator and the Select II in the same system?

Sorry. Could not resist, may be Ked is reading!

You asked, I deliver, but I can't upload the pics right now, at sheldonian in Oxford listening to some nice Liszt, Chopin, etc. Later tonight or tomorrow

Legolas · Aug 12, 2017

microstrip said:
The question is that the fundamentals behind digital sound quality are still not well known. It is not a question a computer power, it is a question on how to use this computer power and if its really needed or if it is becoming a marketing argument. The transfers rates of audio are really low - servers could transfer a complete CD in a few seconds and rest while the DAC is playing.

In many cases, computer audio is bunched into one category. There can be a huge difference between a base PC pumping out USB and an optimised server avoiding USB IMO. So, lets not get on the 'all PC audio is worse' subject, as that is not the case nowadays. Not only that. IMO you can have a great front end on very low budgets.:b

sbo6 · Aug 12, 2017

microstrip said:
May be someone has heard the Lampizator and the Select II in the same system?

Sorry. Could not resist, may be Ked is reading!

Wasn't the Lampizator dethroned by the Aqua Audio Formula in Mike's system? And the Aqua was dethroned by the MSB? Sooo why compare #3 to #1? ;-)

Priaptor · Aug 12, 2017

koalakoala said:
my renderer playing 128dsd

View attachment 34894

Hi Koala

My speakers, the Nola Concert Grands, are much more sensitive than your Giya3 albeit rated at 8 ohms not 6. Your stereo amp is on my short list to try and I too am going direct from my Select II into my amp. I am thinking of of changing out to a solid state amp and would love to hear your feedback about the matching of the Select II direct into the DAG regarding gain/volume levels and your overall thoughts about the amp.

I have the opportunity to audition the monos that I am not really interested in, but will audition to get a feel but am much more interested in your stereo amp.

Thanks in advance
Howie

Mike Lavigne · Aug 12, 2017

sbo6 said:
Wasn't the Lampizator dethroned by the Aqua Audio Formula in Mike's system? And the Aqua was dethroned by the MSB? Sooo why compare #3 to #1? ;-)

it's never that simple, and it was not in my case. as Micro says, there is much system synergy and tastes involved. some dacs need a system to be 'fitted' to them to shine.

what I've said repeatedly is that tubed dacs seem to show artifacts of their characters in my system when compared directly with very good to excellent solid state dacs. recently I've had the Trinity, then the Aqua Formula, and now the Select II.

i'm sure there are plenty of systems where the tubed dacs fit like a glove.

are there universal truths (dacs supreme in all systems)? maybe.

bonzo75 · Aug 12, 2017

sbo6 said:
Wasn't the Lampizator dethroned by the Aqua Audio Formula in Mike's system? And the Aqua was dethroned by the MSB? Sooo why compare #3 to #1? ;-)

Where, when Shakti, who has a group that regularly do shootouts in cologne found that aqua scala > big 7 > formula > GG? He has two systems, YG Anat with Krell and Zingali with many great sets. I haven't heard the formula, so unlike you, do not comment on the dacs I have not heard. You haven't heard Mike's system either

Kingsrule · Aug 12, 2017

Al M. said:
Components that were as resolving as to expose the differences that I just described with great clarity.

And the arrogance beat goes on......

Kingsrule · Aug 12, 2017

The music server, file delivery systems are just at the beginning of their evolution. Spinning has basically run its course. There are so many variables to be considered.

For instance, I just finished reformatting my NAS and the sonic changes are significant.

I'll post what I did in a new thread

PeterA · Aug 12, 2017

Al M. said:
And there is still incentive for development of transport performance as well. I have heard that my CD transport is selling extraordinarily well in Europe, Russia and Asia. There people still seem to be spinning discs to a much higher degree than audiophiles in the US.

Mike, this is a bit off-topic, but I wonder if this holds true in the world of top analog. I mean, the whole world is on the digital bandwagon and analog (tape and vinyl) are mature technologies, and yet, you have made many direct comparisons between the two formats in your own system and still prefer analog, or so it seems from your posts. From reports I've read on WBF, analog is still improving too.

sbo6 · Aug 12, 2017

bonzo75 said:
Where, when Shakti, who has a group that regularly do shootouts in cologne found that aqua scala > big 7 > formula > GG? He has two systems, YG Anat with Krell and Zingali with many great sets. I haven't heard the formula, so unlike you, do not comment on the dacs I have not heard. You haven't heard Mike's system either

Last time I checked this thread was titled, "MSB Select II arrival" = Mike's system. Staying on point and applying whatever reason you may (see Mike's post above) he dumped the Lampizaner for the Formula. Period. Unlike you, I don't get offended when someone critiques a component I own, I'm just pointing out the obvious WRT the OP. That said, I do get system synergy as a factor but I believe it's overrated in many circumstances. Sometimes a component is plain better than it's competition.

Mike Lavigne · Aug 12, 2017

PeterA said:
Mike, this is a bit off-topic, but I wonder if this holds true in the world of top analog. I mean, the whole world is on the digital bandwagon and analog (tape and vinyl) are mature technologies, and yet, you have made many direct comparisons between the two formats in your own system and still prefer analog, or so it seems from your posts. From reports I've read on WBF, analog is still improving too.

absolutely analog is still improving. but there are much more efforts being put into analog progress than digital transport progress, at least in my view. so they are not really the same idea.

and remember my reference is my current analog in my system now, and that sort or musical connection and sensual experience.

the difference to me personally between my path in digital and analog is that I'm at a 'happy place' in analog and am not driven to get it to any new paradigm level, whereas while I enjoyed my digital I felt there was more to go to get to a place where it was 'right'. so many times I would describe myself as 'in play' with my digital direction.....for the last 2-3 years.

with the Select II it's looking like I'm also at that 'happy place' where I'm not 'searching'......knowing that I'm doing the second power supply, the new renderer is looming, and the whole upgrade culture of the product. I'm good with my digital place. but I still prefer analog directly compared and don't expect that to change. my view of how close digital gets likely will evolve as the Select II gets completely optimized.

DaveC · Aug 12, 2017

Mike Lavigne said:
it's never that simple, and it was not in my case. as Micro says, there is much system synergy and tastes involved. some dacs need a system to be 'fitted' to them to shine.

what I've said repeatedly is that tubed dacs seem to show artifacts of their characters in my system when compared directly with very good to excellent solid state dacs. recently I've had the Trinity, then the Aqua Formula, and now the Select II.

i'm sure there are plenty of systems where the tubed dacs fit like a glove.

are there universal truths (dacs supreme in all systems)? maybe.

I'd definitely agree for the most part, but it depends on the circuit. If you're using big DHTs having 4 times as many of them in a more complex circuit (you'd need 16 for the balanced version

) might not be practical but it would certainly measure better, eliminate a lot of that "character" and sound better overall, imo. Easily done with smaller tubes... I totally understand why you'd want to use DHT power tubes though, but it's not the most neutral solution by any means.

- - - -

I do look forward to the Yggy comparison as the price fits my budget just a little better than a Select II

Also the Ayre QX-5 Twenty and Matrix X-Sabre Pro with the new ESS chip look interesting.

MSB Select II arrival

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