Spectral/MIT Cables-Thoughts, Experience, Which do you use?

1rsw

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Jul 21, 2010
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Hello All,

First off, I've finally gone and done it. I sold my 360's and bought a 260 which should arrive in the next 2 weeks. I'm excited but also a bit nervous. My sick audiophillia always thinks about what will be lost rather than what will be gained but I am able to smother that voice for the most part and looking forward to hearing this beast.

Anyways... that is not why I started this thread. I've always been baffled by near everything about MIT cables but at the same time I have always considered them the best cable out there, for any rig, not just Spectral. Their line is incredibly confusing, pricing totally out of hand and information on whats what is so cryptic it's impossible to sort....but I am trying to do so. Here is some of my recent experience....

I had been using Oracle Matrix 50HD interconnects and Matrix 90HD speaker cables up until a few weeks ago. I found them to be much more articulate than the Spectral cables and really better in every way. I just replaced the interconnects with Oracle MA-X and the change was dramatic and quite frankly surprising. I expected better but similar in character but they are not. The MA-X adds an incredible amount of weight, presence and low end dynamics. It has a much greater "you are there" presentation and the stage size is massive in comparison. This is not to say the Matrix is bad, just very very different. In some ways it sounds faster and more detailed in the highs but I think some of this may be my room being overloaded with the added low end from the MA-X. If you heard the 2 cables on after the other there is no way you would believe it is the same amplifier, that's how different they sound. Any thought I had previous that my Spectral's were a tad lean are way gone with the MA-X in place. But in the end, I just wonder what is best for these amps and what Spectral or even MIT believes best?

Before I bought the MA-X I asked some dealers this question. I got conflicting information, imagine that. One said that the MA-X is what MIT recommended as best for Spectral, the other talked generally about how some MIT cables, even high in the line, do not mate well with Spectral and suggested the Matrix. Is there an actual answer to this question? What is the best cable solution for Spectral amplifiers?

What do you guys use and why?
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
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You are not going to like my answer, but since you asked... I've gone through the same gyrations with MIT cables in the distant past as well, with the same results - basically, some cables would offer tremendous low end, e.g. the MIT "Reference" interconnect, others would affect the sound in other ways. Then I read all of MIT's patents - I was not really impressed... soon I started measuring in-room response with various cables, which indicated significant variations between them, especially in the bass... eventually, my conclusion has since then been that the cables I have had and/or tried at home are simply tone controls - thus don't necessarily extract any more information than what's already available on the wire ends; and this is what I was hearing.

Last year, I read the HiFi+ review of the MA-X speaker cables in issue 79, where they are compared against the author's Magnum cables... among the accolades (which to me are really improvements over the serious deficiencies in his Magnum cables that other less expensive cables don't suffer from) the following caught my attention:

... adjustable articulation. The output end of each box carries a pair of rotary switches with five different positions. One is labelled 'Bass' the other 'Treble' and they permit the user to adjust the level of articulation in the lower or upper frequency ranges. The effect is like a subtle and well-executed tone control. Increased articulation in the treble brings high frequency information a little to the fore, decreased articulation in the bass makes the lower registers recede.

In the end, I like dead neutral and ended up with the Spectral cables for the sole reasons of being simple and replacing exactly what's missing in the circuit - the output inductor and input choke - and perhaps doing so in a better way.

PS: I think you are going to be thrilled with the 260
 

1rsw

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Jul 21, 2010
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Ha!! I do like your answer...any answer actually. I do not go into this with any emotional attachments to cables. They have just been the best I have heard but I asked because I really do want to know. I do recall reading some of your comments on the topic before and what i respect most about it is the fact that you came to your conclusion by trying them.

I actually still have a set of 350 ULII here and comparing them to the MA-X they are really hollow. Much of the 360 degree texture of vocals seems to fade and the stage collapses. Which is right? No idea but I think the Oracles sound better, at least with the 360. Bass is no contest. I had no idea Spectral amps could produce bass like this and it does not sound altered or "toned up". On the knob, I don't get that at all. I have no idea why anyone would want it, just give me pure signal please. 12 o'clock is neutral from how I read it and that is where I leave it. I messed around a little with it but for now I seem to be most comfortable leaving it in the middle.

Anyone ever ask Spectral directly what their opinion of the higher tier MIT stuff is with their amps? I've seen them showed with the higher MIT's before, most recently the Matrix. I'd also like to know MIT's opinion.

Yea, I'm pretty excited about the new amp, thanks!
 

ack

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May 6, 2010
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Anyone ever ask Spectral directly what their opinion of the higher tier MIT stuff is with their amps? I've seen them showed with the higher MIT's before, most recently the Matrix. I'd also like to know MIT's opinion.

Yes I did, a few years ago, and they said either their cables or the Oracle MA. So perhaps your MA-X are just fine (they were not available yet back then)
 

treitz3

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Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
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Hello, 1rsw. Were you aware that MIT has a lending library? If you weren't aware that they offered this, then I suggest that you fill in and submit the application linked below.

http://ww2.mitcables.com/lendinglibraryform.html

I could be incorrect but I think Gavin Fish is running the library. Regardless of whether he is or not, they might be able to hook you up with the cables that will work the best with your rig and room. Just be blatantly honest about all of the aspects and with what you would like to improve upon and they'll get you headed down the right path.

I am curious, have you ever considered the Transparent lineup of cables? This is just my observation with regards to my rig, but the MIT cables seem to have a slight coloring, much to my dislike. Some folks love it, just not me. I have fallen in love with the Transparent Reference IC's, they are quite a step up from the Ultras.

Here is what I suggest you do, if you will be so kind as to entertain the thought. Go ahead and take the collective information from this thread and other comments you may be getting elsewhere and see where that leads you within the MIT lineup. Then call Transparent and see what their equivalent might be and if you can, try them both out in your system. Transparent might have a demo program as well. I have heard rumors that they did but I have not gotten around to verifying this yet.

If you do want more MIT cables, I have a source for [Ron Buffington at Liquid Hi-Fi] you may also want to entertain. He's got some great prices, some say better than Joe Abrams. You'll have to find out for yourself on that one though. I believe that he's currently running the Magnum SC's in his reference rig at the moment, you might could get a smokin' price on those. Again, you'll have to find that one out on your own. Below is his link if you are interested...

http://liquidhifi.com/index.html

Best of luck to you and until then, enjoy the music.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Hello, 1rsw. Were you aware that MIT has a lending library? If you weren't aware that they offered this, then I suggest that you fill in and submit the application linked below.

http://ww2.mitcables.com/lendinglibraryform.html

I could be incorrect but I think Gavin Fish is running the library. Regardless of whether he is or not, they might be able to hook you up with the cables that will work the best with your rig and room. Just be blatantly honest about all of the aspects and with what you would like to improve upon and they'll get you headed down the right path.

I am curious, have you ever considered the Transparent lineup of cables? This is just my observation with regards to my rig, but the MIT cables seem to have a slight coloring, much to my dislike. Some folks love it, just not me. I have fallen in love with the Transparent Reference IC's, they are quite a step up from the Ultras.

Here is what I suggest you do, if you will be so kind as to entertain the thought. Go ahead and take the collective information from this thread and other comments you may be getting elsewhere and see where that leads you within the MIT lineup. Then call Transparent and see what their equivalent might be and if you can, try them both out in your system. Transparent might have a demo program as well. I have heard rumors that they did but I have not gotten around to verifying this yet.

If you do want more MIT cables, I have a source for [Ron Buffington at Liquid Hi-Fi] you may also want to entertain. He's got some great prices, some say better than Joe Abrams. You'll have to find out for yourself on that one though. I believe that he's currently running the Magnum SC's in his reference rig at the moment, you might could get a smokin' price on those. Again, you'll have to find that one out on your own. Below is his link if you are interested...

http://liquidhifi.com/index.html

Best of luck to you and until then, enjoy the music.

Which MIT IC/speaker cables are you referring to?
 

mullard88

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Jun 5, 2010
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Hi 1rsw,

I've used MIT with Spectral ever since the time of the MIT 330, MH 750 and Spectral DMC 10 and DMA 50. I've always liked the combination and have always upgraded my MITs until the Oracle series. Late last year, I swapped out the MIT Oracles with the Daniel Hertz speaker cables and was pleasantly surprised at the synergy. Whereas the MIT presents a vast soundstage with the full frequency spectrum and lots of dynamics, it somehow sounded hi-fi to my ears compared against the Daniel Hertz speaker cables. To me, the reproduction of music with the Daniel Hertz speaker cables has a sense of ease and naturalness. Just thought of sharing this with you.

Sam
 

1rsw

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2010
134
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treitz3 - Thank you for your reply. I'm already very familiar with the MIT line and have used various models for at least the last decade. My question was more about which MIT cable would be the best match for Spectral gear, given all the options. I do not have much interest in trying Transparent as I plan to stay with Spectral gear which require MIT cables.


mullard88 - As mentioned, I plan to stay with Spectral gear so going to another brand of cables does not seem like the best idea. That aside, I actually do like MIT's sound, just looking for the best match....too many choices, all very different.
 

treitz3

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Staff member
Dec 25, 2011
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1rsw, hello again and you are welcome. Might I suggest at this point to call MIT and try to talk to Lisa. She may not know what it is you are looking for but she will most likely know who it is you need to talk to. Phil is one of them and Kent Loughin (sp?) may be able to help you out as well. I apologize. I'm not that familiar with Spectral gear and I now know what it is you are talking about with regards to MIT cables and your gear.

Myles, I have had several. Mostly the lower type. T2's, CV3's or something along that line and another one I can not recall or seem to dig up for complete certainty. If I do find out for sure, I'll let you know. Until then? This is what I have to offer you to answer your question.
 

nirodha

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2010
679
296
975
Hi,
am using MIT MAX-rev. 2. They replaced my original spectral 770/2. And...the MAX blew them away. But: do not mix. Go all the way. Simple as that. Trust your ears. Playing 360/1. And no desire to upgrade...yet.
 

1rsw

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2010
134
1
365
Hi,
am using MIT MAX-rev. 2. They replaced my original spectral 770/2. And...the MAX blew them away. But: do not mix. Go all the way. Simple as that. Trust your ears. Playing 360/1. And no desire to upgrade...yet.

I agree, mixing too much can really screw things up. I couldn't swing the MA-X speaker cables too so I have the Matrix 90HD speaker cables which I am told is very compatible with the MA-X ic. I do have the MA-X digital cable also. You have what I wanted to get:) It's amazing how different the amps sound adding the MA-X, I am running 360 series 1 for now also. The amount of presence, authority and tonal depth is night and day from how they have ever sounded. I think if more people heard Spectral with the higher tier MIT cables of today they may have a much different opinion of both. Honestly, I cannot imagine an amp being too much better so I am pretty curious about the 260 (ships today!....1 week).

The more I listen the more I think I made the correct choice with the MA-X. I may like to hear a tad more air or shimmer in the higher end but some of this is bass overloading my room periodically. I need to adjust speaker placement and acoustic tx's since adding the new ic's, that's how much it's changed the sound. Interesting thing is it does not sound unnatural or tonally modified. In fact, it sounds more lifelike and tonally correct. I think some people see the boxes and assume it is manipulating the signal to color presentation, like an EQ, but in reality it is only repairing damage done in transit so in the end the signal is more complete/accurate. I no longer bring up MIT in discussions or forums because it is so polarizing among audiophiles but I do sometimes read the forums, listen to my rig, sit back and grin:)
 

nirodha

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Aug 11, 2010
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I no longer bring up MIT in discussions or forums because it is so polarizing among audiophiles but I do sometimes read the forums, listen to my rig, sit back and grin:)

Same here: can't get rid of the grin even if I'd try :p Enjoy the 260!!! Heard them at a friend's. Awesome amp! :)
 

ack

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May 6, 2010
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One of the questions I asked myself was - just how much damage can a 1m IC and 3m speaker wire cause - how much information can really get lost or be distorted in just 4m worth of wires - that it takes 45 thousand dollars or more (combined) in "network boxes" to fix, and what does that mean for the wiring inside a speaker and all that copper in the capacitors and inductors...

Couple that with some of the patent claims, e.g. 45 degree phase errors that the networks correct - and frankly, what is really the actual phase error in the audible range and reasonably beyond? - and one can't help but think: Wow, that must be some terrible piece of wire, crossover components and all the rest... or is it
 

nirodha

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Aug 11, 2010
679
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One of the questions I asked myself was - just how much damage can a 1m IC and 3m speaker wire cause - how much information can really get lost or be distorted in just 4m worth of wires - that it takes 45 thousand dollars or more (combined) in "network boxes" to fix, and what does that mean for the wiring inside a speaker and all that copper in the capacitors and inductors...

Couple that with some of the patent claims, e.g. 45 degree phase errors that the networks correct - and frankly, what is really the actual phase error in the audible range and reasonably beyond? - and one can't help but think: Wow, that must be some terrible piece of wire, crossover components and all the rest... or is it

I hear ye! I reallly do! But once I connected the monsters there was no way back: Big sound, ultra low noise floor, extreme resolution and most important... a "soul" that connected intellect and emotion. :p. Yeah, yeah I know..last sentence is a bit "woolly". But let me explain. When I was younger (some 35 years younger) listening to music was pure emotion (you know head banging to Deep Purple until people from 3 streets away started complaining to my parents). The second phase (the audiophile phase) was listening for resolution etc. And now I am in phase three in which the MAX play a big role. Music can bring tears to my eyes but I can also admire the the nuances put into music by the performers. Lets face it: isn't this what it is all about :D:p
 

1rsw

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Jul 21, 2010
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I feel so lucky sometimes that I'm more of an art guy than science. I'm blessed with ignorance, for the most part, so I try to judge on how it reproduces music vs what and how it completes that task. The stuff I choose for consumption allows my system to sound closer to the source to my ears...and that includes the life/soul of what is being reproduced. This is hard to articulate stuff but I know what I mean:) I know a lot of guys, many very close friends, that explore how a device works and need to understand exactly what is being done and how before they get whether it's right for the rig or not. I'd surely be institutionalized if I tried that. There is just too much to know and too much that is impossible to know so in the end I'm sure I would also eliminate many devices that work well simply because i didn't know how/why they worked.

I say all that because MIT stuff falls into that mix. I have very little understanding beyond what I wrote above of how they work or what they do but it is very apparent that they bring a life to music in my system that nothing else has. Take away the MA-X and my rig is running at half speed...if that. That fact is much more important than any patent or scientific application when it comes to my listening pleasure. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand Ack's line of thinking and it's easy to see where exploring the science of all this suggests it's madness.....or bullshit at the least. But the sound......oh my, the sound. There really is no other device I have experienced that can have this type of impact on my system. In fact, if I did not use MIT stuff. it's likely that I would go to a much lower level of gear. IMO, it would be a waste of money to have this gear and run at half speed. Strong words, I know.

I would also say that the more recent MIT, especially the very high tier, is leaps beyond the older stuff.
 

nirodha

Well-Known Member
Aug 11, 2010
679
296
975
I feel so lucky sometimes that I'm more of an art guy than science. I'm blessed with ignorance, for the most part, so I try to judge on how it reproduces music vs what and how it completes that task. The stuff I choose for consumption allows my system to sound closer to the source to my ears...and that includes the life/soul of what is being reproduced. This is hard to articulate stuff but I know what I mean:) I know a lot of guys, many very close friends, that explore how a device works and need to understand exactly what is being done and how before they get whether it's right for the rig or not. I'd surely be institutionalized if I tried that. There is just too much to know and too much that is impossible to know so in the end I'm sure I would also eliminate many devices that work well simply because i didn't know how/why they worked.

I say all that because MIT stuff falls into that mix. I have very little understanding beyond what I wrote above of how they work or what they do but it is very apparent that they bring a life to music in my system that nothing else has. Take away the MA-X and my rig is running at half speed...if that. That fact is much more important than any patent or scientific application when it comes to my listening pleasure. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand Ack's line of thinking and it's easy to see where exploring the science of all this suggests it's madness.....or bullshit at the least. But the sound......oh my, the sound. There really is no other device I have experienced that can have this type of impact on my system. In fact, if I did not use MIT stuff. it's likely that I would go to a much lower level of gear. IMO, it would be a waste of money to have this gear and run at half speed. Strong words, I know.

I would also say that the more recent MIT, especially the very high tier, is leaps beyond the older stuff.

You said it all :)
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
11,236
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New York City
One of the questions I asked myself was - just how much damage can a 1m IC and 3m speaker wire cause - how much information can really get lost or be distorted in just 4m worth of wires - that it takes 45 thousand dollars or more (combined) in "network boxes" to fix, and what does that mean for the wiring inside a speaker and all that copper in the capacitors and inductors...

Couple that with some of the patent claims, e.g. 45 degree phase errors that the networks correct - and frankly, what is really the actual phase error in the audible range and reasonably beyond? - and one can't help but think: Wow, that must be some terrible piece of wire, crossover components and all the rest... or is it

Personally read the technical but don't let it affect my judgement ;) Proof is always in the listening and the newest MIT is the best cable overall that I have used in my system. But the IC and speaker (as I now feel true for most cables) should be used together. Yes the Oracle phono is hideously expensive but haven't heard anything that comes close :( The latest MIT and Kubala-Sosna are the first two cables where I didn't feel was choosing the lesser of two evils! And hopefully will have the newest speaker cables in to play with in the near future ;)
 

1rsw

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Jul 21, 2010
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Myles...may I ask what specific model you are referring to? The Matrix 50 and if so, what other MIT models did you compare it too? BTW, "hideously expensive" is very well stated. I have a love/hate relationship with MIT.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Myles...may I ask what specific model you are referring to? The Matrix 50 and if so, what other MIT models did you compare it too? BTW, "hideously expensive" is very well stated. I have a love/hate relationship with MIT.

I was using/reviewing the MIT Oracle MA-X IC and phono and Magnum speaker cable. It seems that MIT recommends using the best IC and if you can't afford the comparable speaker cable, using the lesser priced wire.

Over the years I suspect, like many of us here, have had MIT cables like the 330, 770, etc. in their systems. The latest is the best that I've heard from MIT eg. it definitely has more midrange along with superlative resolution of harmonics and space and the best low end I've heard to date from a cable.
 

edwardce

Member
Oct 7, 2010
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Spectral has released its' new speaker cables and interconnects and they are available to be ordered, as I have done. They are MIT sourced and there are two levels of performance. The better ones, which I expect to have shipped to me the end of this week are the Matrix HD60 S speaker cables at $6200 8ft pair and Matrix 36 S interconnects at $3200 1m pair (prices approx.). I will report my impressions when they are installed and broken in a bit. Your Spectral Dealer can provide details.
 

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