First Sounds: Grand Prix Audio Monaco 2.0

jfrech

VIP/Donor
Sep 3, 2012
2,152
749
1,160
Austin
Wow and with Albert's technics Texas has all the DDs covered

Alberts is killer good too ! I've heard it with the SME V-12's but not the 4 points I think he's using now...
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,601
5,411
1,278
E. England
John, putting aside pride of ownership and natural bias twds your own tt, did you feel there were any areas that Albert's modded SP10 or the Kodo Beat have the measure or exceed yr GPA 1.5?
I was suprised that Albert turned down the Wave Kinetics NVS for his SP10 - M Lavigne went the other way.
 

jfrech

VIP/Donor
Sep 3, 2012
2,152
749
1,160
Austin
John, putting aside pride of ownership and natural bias twds your own tt, did you feel there were any areas that Albert's modded SP10 or the Kodo Beat have the measure or exceed yr GPA 1.5?
I was suprised that Albert turned down the Wave Kinetics NVS for his SP10 - M Lavigne went the other way.

It's hard to do this. None were side by side. I'd say Albert's had a killer authority and density on each note. Rock solid imaging. My guess is it's his very heavy plinth and platter. Sinks vibes and acts as a flywheel. Both Kodo's just nothing to complain about. Just great. I'd say my Monaco 1.0 has the best pitch stability - nothing I heard from the heavily modded technics or the Kodo drove me to even consider a change. Not saying mine is superior...just saying I didn't hear anything to consider a switch.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,601
5,411
1,278
E. England
Sure.
Well by definition, if you're bowled over by the 2.0 over 1.5, that's going to be v significant, in effect a definite step up over modded SP10 and Beat.
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 3, 2014
5,777
6,818
1,400
the Upper Midwest
It's a good table. I have 2 friends with that table locally. Heard it many times. I like my GPA Monaco...I will say the Monaco is sensitive to the stand it's on. I use Grand Prix Audio stands and a great synergy here. I think you have to consider this bundled "system". I know other stand fare very well too with the Monaco...but not all..

This is an excellent point about the stand and worth noting by folks considering the Monaco. While it has vibration absorbing material between its double wall CF plinth, and the Apex footers help, GPA expects its user to pay attention to its platform as an aid to improvement. As you say, the 'table is sensitive to what it sits on - though I don't have any sensitivity comparisons with other 'tables. I wrote about the 1.5 and 2.0 while they sat on a SRA Scuttle v3. It really helps mitigate vibration impact and absorb vibration from the 'table - however - I know I can do better for it. I've heard nothing but good things about the GPA stands. Of course there are multiple options here. I plan to upgrade the Monaco's platform in the next year.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,601
5,411
1,278
E. England
Tima, I can imagine a cutting edge design like the Monaco would benefit from cutting edge active eg Herzan or passive eg Stacore.
For my part, so impressed am I w the Stacore under cdp and bpt, I've bought one for my tt, sound unheard, 100% convinced it will be a match made in Heaven under my tt.
And I'm confident the GP too.
 

theophile

Well-Known Member
All suspension-less turntables would benefit from proper isolation. The greater the capability of the suspension-less turntable, the greater the benefit from proper isolation.
 

jfrech

VIP/Donor
Sep 3, 2012
2,152
749
1,160
Austin
This is an excellent point about the stand and worth noting by folks considering the Monaco. While it has vibration absorbing material between its double wall CF plinth, and the Apex footers help, GPA expects its user to pay attention to its platform as an aid to improvement. As you say, the 'table is sensitive to what it sits on - though I don't have any sensitivity comparisons with other 'tables. I wrote about the 1.5 and 2.0 while they sat on a SRA Scuttle v3. It really helps mitigate vibration impact and absorb vibration from the 'table - however - I know I can do better for it. I've heard nothing but good things about the GPA stands. Of course there are multiple options here. I plan to upgrade the Monaco's platform in the next year.

Embarrassing, I just saw about 5 grammar issues in my post :eek: you just quoted...

I hope you get a chance to check out the Grand Prix Silverstone F1 stands...I haven't compared to your SRA, I just know the Silverstones are exceptional...
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
4,938
6,268
950
Bangkok
Here is more information and some comparison of the GPA Monaco 1.5 with the 2.0, along with brief sonic impressions.
At The Audio Beat: First Sounds: Grand Prix Audio Monaco 2.0.

View attachment 33618

Dear Sir,

Is this a 14" 4Pt.? You mentioned in your review you also tried witha Triplanar. Which arm do you prefer on the 2.0...a Triplanar or 4Pt. Did you use the same cart when switched between two arms.

Kind regards,
Tang
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
3,591
2,573
1,860
Sydney
Ked, I think we're arguing at cross purposes.
Yes, non belt drives can be urgent/pertinent (ie like the kineticness of real music), but truncated/pinched (not so good).
Indeed, many DDs suffer from this.
Eg Technic SL1210, original GP 1.0 in my listening experiences sounded a bit dry and overly forward.
But many of the Garrard 301 mods are right up my alley, with equal part pertinence and relaxed breathing space for notes, and it's these examples that draw me away from the belt drives I've heard that don't keep my attention quite as fully.
No doubt, idlers, rims and DDs have their work cut out to achieve both rhythmic urgency (pertinence, dynamic prowess, whatever phrase best suits) AND relaxed music making, ability to breathe.
Eg the Reed twin wheel idler I've had reliable reports on just doesn't lose the last degree of mechanicalness from its presentation.
And my rim drive, in concert w 4" air bearing linear tracking arm and quite neutral Straingauge cart, is just on the slightly truncated side of neutral.
A reason why I want to hear the PTP Solid 12 w their in-house 12" arm (I'm not touching the Schick 12" from what I've discovered) to see if I'm missing any "wetness" in my analog sound, while maintaining the "insistency" I already have, that I gather is there in spades on the PTP.
And I remain convinced the extra torque of the GP2.0 is a big reason for its superiority over the 1.5 amongst other things.

Marc. You make a good point here in the highlighted. It is difficult to do both at the very best levels. I would say the best DD's definitely have better speed control than any idler, rim drive or belt drive.

My two DD's have superior speed, control, continuous flow in the bass, lead instrument attack and see through mid range. Same when I had the Monaco 1.0 table. What they do lack in a small way is the relaxed delivery, depth and treble " air " that my TW ac-3 has.
How a table and system handles transients in music is very important.

Hard to find a table that does it all. I overall prefer my dd tables but I could understand if someone preferred belt drive depending on their musical tastes - that is how they like hearing the delivery of music.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,434
13,467
2,710
London
Dear Sir,

Is this a 14" 4Pt.? You mentioned in your review you also tried witha Triplanar. Which arm do you prefer on the 2.0...a Triplanar or 4Pt. Did you use the same cart when switched between two arms.

Kind regards,
Tang

He prefers kuzma much more from what I remember
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,434
13,467
2,710
London
Marc. You make a good point here in the highlighted. It is difficult to do both at the very best levels. I would say the best DD's definitely have better speed control than any idler, rim drive or belt drive.

My two DD's have superior speed, control, continuous flow in the bass, lead instrument attack and see through mid range. Same when I had the Monaco 1.0 table. What they do lack in a small way is the relaxed delivery, depth and treble " air " that my TW ac-3 has.
How a table and system handles transients in music is very important.

Hard to find a table that does it all. I overall prefer my dd tables but I could understand if someone preferred belt drive depending on their musical tastes - that is how they like hearing the delivery of music.

I like the continuous flow of energy in a DD, and the authority, even on the softer low volume parts of passages.

For well modded technics mk2 and m3, what is the probability that they will fail and cannot be serviced?
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
3,591
2,573
1,860
Sydney
I like the continuous flow of energy in a DD, and the authority, even on the softer low volume parts of passages.

For well modded technics mk2 and m3, what is the probability that they will fail and cannot be serviced?

I will let you know. My SP10mk3 failed on the weekend with speed then way too fast and cannot be adjusted. :(

I believe the famous Technics MN6042 chip has failed. The only thing apparently that does fail. JP from Fidelis analog has given some instructions on how to bypass the chip so correct speed is restored while I wait for him to make up another new chip. I will follow up my tech tomorrow to see if I have good news. been a **** week, so some good news would be welcome.
http://fidelisanalog.com/product/mn6042/

I am now slumming it with the Thales tonearm back on the TW table. - this is in jest :cool:

I have owned my 1979/80 Pioneer Exclusive P3 for 8 years without a hitch, so sometimes bad luck happens I guess.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,434
13,467
2,710
London
Is there a difference in tone on TW and Technics? I read these criticisms of DDs on tone and being abruptly cut off, have never heard good belt and DD in the same system. I don't see those issues in the systems that I have liked, so surely with the cart and phono the tone can be made equally good?
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,601
5,411
1,278
E. England
Ked, I believe it’s the drivetrain that may contribute to tone.
Torque w servo feedback on DD.
May truncate tone and introduce a kind of chill or matter of factness.
Vic my tt designer found everytime he introduced servo feedback to his rim drive Salvation it introduced creeping coldness despite speed being rock solid.
Going back to purely analog non servo/no feedback meant more natural warmth and being involved, despite speed drift over time being a downside. He felt this latter was a better price to pay, meaning speed needing to be tweaked by the user every few days.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,434
13,467
2,710
London
I will let you know. My SP10mk3 failed on the weekend with speed then way too fast and cannot be adjusted. :(

I believe the famous Technics MN6042 chip has failed. The only thing apparently that does fail. JP from Fidelis analog has given some instructions on how to bypass the chip so correct speed is restored while I wait for him to make up another new chip. I will follow up my tech tomorrow to see if I have good news. been a **** week, so some good news would be welcome.
http://fidelisanalog.com/product/mn6042/

I am now slumming it with the Thales tonearm back on the TW table. - this is in jest :cool:

I have owned my 1979/80 Pioneer Exclusive P3 for 8 years without a hitch, so sometimes bad luck happens I guess.

Btw, I am not sure what the right words are in this case :) - Get better soon?
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,434
13,467
2,710
London
the sp10 mk2 does not use that chip?
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 3, 2014
5,777
6,818
1,400
the Upper Midwest
Dear Sir,

Is this a 14" 4Pt.? You mentioned in your review you also tried witha Triplanar. Which arm do you prefer on the 2.0...a Triplanar or 4Pt. Did you use the same cart when switched between two arms.

Kind regards,
Tang

Hi Tang,

For evaluating the GPA Monaco 2.0, I used the 11" Kuzma 4Point and the 9" Tri-Planar Mk VII U2-SE tonearms. Each 'arm was mounted to its dedicated armboard so swapping tonearms was as simple as swapping armboards. The armboards are such a precise fit, that after checking pivot-to-spindle the first few swaps I gained confidence in their stability and skipped that step. I primarily used the Lyra Etna and Benz LP S cartridges with a small amount of time with the Allnic Puritas. And yes, I did the full round-robin: each cartridge had time on each arm.

Which 'arm do I prefer? They're both fine arms, hold their settings very well. I'll guess the 4Point is in play maybe 70% of the time. Whichever arm is installed I'm inclined to let it stay. The 4Point makes it so easy to swap cartridges that I tend to keep my carts mounted on 4Point headshells. Kuzma makes a nice headshell roundhouse for storing them wilth cartrdige attached. So there's a laziness factor in my preference as well. I do find the Etna+4Point+Monaco 2 makes a wonderful combination. I almost always choose the Tri-Planar to play my Transfiguration Phoenix.

Alvin Lloyd offers the Tri-Planar as an option with his tables and he prefers that combination. I'm recalling that Alvin also has a 14" 4Point, so he may have feedback on that model. Best regards, Tim
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
4,938
6,268
950
Bangkok
Hi Tang,

For evaluating the GPA Monaco 2.0, I used the 11" Kuzma 4Point and the 9" Tri-Planar Mk VII U2-SE tonearms. Each 'arm was mounted to its dedicated armboard so swapping tonearms was as simple as swapping armboards. The armboards are such a precise fit, that after checking pivot-to-spindle the first few swaps I gained confidence in their stability and skipped that step. I primarily used the Lyra Etna and Benz LP S cartridges with a small amount of time with the Allnic Puritas. And yes, I did the full round-robin: each cartridge had time on each arm.

Which 'arm do I prefer? They're both fine arms, hold their settings very well. I'll guess the 4Point is in play maybe 70% of the time. Whichever arm is installed I'm inclined to let it stay. The 4Point makes it so easy to swap cartridges that I tend to keep my carts mounted on 4Point headshells. Kuzma makes a nice headshell roundhouse for storing them wilth cartrdige attached. So there's a laziness factor in my preference as well. I do find the Etna+4Point+Monaco 2 makes a wonderful combination. I almost always choose the Tri-Planar to play my Transfiguration Phoenix.

Alvin Lloyd offers the Tri-Planar as an option with his tables and he prefers that combination. I'm recalling that Alvin also has a 14" 4Point, so he may have feedback on that model. Best regards, Tim

Thank you very much tima. It is my desire to have all different drive tts in my system...one day. Your review of the 2.0 stimulates my interest on this tt. Actually your humbleness and the not so hype up styleof writing catch more of my attention. It would be interesting to hear this table on a Herzan in my own system.. if destiny strikes.

Kind regards,
Tang
 

XV-1

Well-Known Member
May 24, 2010
3,591
2,573
1,860
Sydney
Btw, I am not sure what the right words are in this case :) - Get better soon?

looks like I am all better. tech said SP10mk3 is ready to pick up. 100 quid. :cool:

now have to set it up again on the weekend.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing