Everything's been updated. Even the Roonserver. You can download here:
http://download.roonlabs.com/builds/RoonServerInstaller64.exe
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/how-do-i-move-my-library-over-to-roonserver/3195/2
Nadac?
- Thread starter andrew_stenhouse
- Start date
- Status
Everything's been updated. Even the Roonserver. You can download here:
http://download.roonlabs.com/builds/RoonServerInstaller64.exe
https://community.roonlabs.com/t/how-do-i-move-my-library-over-to-roonserver/3195/2
Ahhh you good man Mike. Thank you very very much. Now if the server would only turn up - couriers and Xmas don't mix.
Edit - have it up and running on OSX - wonderful. Integration with Tidal is fine, and I have Tidal playing back in DSD 64. Which brings me onto...
- any idea why I can only playback DSD 64 both on Roon and HQ Player on OSX? A+ is fine for DSD 128, but with Roon & HQ Player (together or separately) I can neither upsample to or natively play DSD 128 (as Wisnon mentioned cannot play above that).
Edit - have it up and running on OSX - wonderful. Integration with Tidal is fine, and I have Tidal playing back in DSD 64. Which brings me onto...
- any idea why I can only playback DSD 64 both on Roon and HQ Player on OSX? A+ is fine for DSD 128, but with Roon & HQ Player (together or separately) I can neither upsample to or natively play DSD 128 (as Wisnon mentioned cannot play above that).
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I'm not sure. What's the max you have done with HQplayer alone? I thought you were upsampling to DSD 256 with the Mac earlier?
Are you running HQplayer 3.12 beta?
http://www.signalyst.com/beta-install.html
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My systems upgraded last night with this release. Alas, Roon crashed on my server for the first time while importing tracks. Hopefully that was a fluke and not a sign of another update coming to fix it.
It does all sorts of things while importing. I disabled the background audio analysis. Don't need that feature. I also noticed the new HQplayer 3.12 release is more processor intensive. Can't do PCM-DSD128 with my I3 NUC anymore without stuttering. DSD 64 resampling takes more CPU power than 128 did with the last version! I suppose not an issue with powerful I7 processor anyways.
For some reason it has polluted my album list with piles of albums I don't want from tidal! It's driving me nuts and can't figure out how to get rid of them. Have any idea?
To pollute the main album list, or to not pollute the main album list? Seems like it's adding albums it thinks I will like. Only bad thing is it doesn't know me very well
Oh, that is annoying.
In answer to your questions - yes using Beta 3.12, not upsampling beyond 128 ever on OSX - won't play back - can't remember now what I got to play back from HQ & DSD now. I know Roon was limited to 64. A+ fine at 128. HQ Player ? And course to complicate matters I have plugged back in the Mytek via FW instead of the Nadac (busted thunderbolt - ethernet connector).
I know there is an option to stop suggestions of Tidal entering your library - I had that when I set up and didn't like it. Now when I set up I make sure I don't tick that button.
Will set up the Server to day and report.
Cheers
In answer to your questions - yes using Beta 3.12, not upsampling beyond 128 ever on OSX - won't play back - can't remember now what I got to play back from HQ & DSD now. I know Roon was limited to 64. A+ fine at 128. HQ Player ? And course to complicate matters I have plugged back in the Mytek via FW instead of the Nadac (busted thunderbolt - ethernet connector).
I know there is an option to stop suggestions of Tidal entering your library - I had that when I set up and didn't like it. Now when I set up I make sure I don't tick that button.
Will set up the Server to day and report.
Cheers
To not.To pollute the main album list, or to not pollute the main album list? Seems like it's adding albums it thinks I will like. Only bad thing is it doesn't know me very well
I had the understanding that you were already upsampling PCM to DSD 256 with your macbook. And it was running at 166% CPU load? I really can't see how your macbook air would be able to handle it anyways.
I just did a fresh install and I didn't check any of those things. I have gone through every setting a million times and can't see where to disable this terrible feature. I guess I'll have to delete albums 1 by 1. But seems like everytime
I add an new album, a bunch of others are added by them.
I think it's populating the albums based on my birth year I put in while installing. That and what's in my music collection. Anyways as I delete the bad stuff, it seems to be learning what I like more and more as I go. So maybe it's not too bad as it's populating some good stuff into my collection now
Maybe tomorrow we will have HQplayer 3.12 beta4. It will help with the CPU load issue. Jussi said he's aware of the problem and will fix. Although it may not be a problem if you have enough power under the hood, as he says it's a performance feature just added for the beta 3.12 release. Maybe he should have a button to turn it on and off instead. I'm also getting frequent lost sync between Roon and HQ player during track changes or pausing. It forces me to restart Roon. Hopefully this glitch will be ironed out soon.
So all hooked up and running - converting 16/44 PCM to 256 DSD uses, with all back ground processes running including Roon, between 30 and 37% cpu, and about 10-15% memory (of 16 GB). So really not that cpu intensive with the server version.
The heat sink is slightly warm to the touch on the processor side, dead cool on the other and the case is cool. I'll run it over night to simulate a day's listening and see how it goes. Its a balmy 70 - 80 F here atm, summers reach 105 F and very humid but AC will see it be in a controlled 70-75 F environment.
As an aside;
Getting my head around Win 10 (I use OSX at home and Win 7 at work) was a giant PITA and the Ravenna ethernet protocol isn't very consumer friendly - it is after all designed to be installed under complex studio conditions with lots of in's and out's from many channels to many workstations. I expect a network professional would usually install it. Anyway I managed to work it out. So it cannot be that difficult.
Here are two tips - on a dual ethernet windows pc, the Ravenna/Nadac comes up as a public network and LAN as a private. You have to:
1. Disable Windows Firewall & Defender on the public network
2. Enable all permission sharing on the public network.
As I want integration with Tidal, I want access to the interwebs, and so for some basic, but effective, protection found that 360 Total Security (which is what I usually run on Windows anyway) to be effective and easily configurable to allow the Merging sw and drivers in & out. Anyway I have a firewall on my router and modem, and tend to use a vpn most of the time, in any event, so risk is relatively small. Worse that happens is they hit my music server, which is very much a dead end. The VPN helps with Tidal in Australia, which otherwise can suffer drop outs. Although to be fair has been much better of late.
I am running it all remotely ie headless, so loaded the Roon server edition + HQ Player, and simply added each program to the start folder to launch at start up. After some more hair pulling they are stable in config. Not so easy on Windows 10, or so it turned out. Mainly because I didn't know where anything was. Bloody UI.
So now have two stable ways of playing back files to my Nadac:
1. Roon server edition (no upsampling conversion or dsp - what you put in is what you get out) - Merging ASIO driver - Merging Nadac.
2. Roon server edition - HQ Player (dsp conversion in my case to DSD256 but you can do virtually anything you want including DXD384) - Merging ASIO driver - Merging Nadac (at the dsp'ed DSD256)
Of the two, I prefer the second, and by some margin, with all PCM files, whatever their native sample rate. I am agnostic in respect of DSD files, although perceive a more pleasing quality to when DSD 64 files are dsp'ed to DSD 256. CPU load obviously drop in the latter instance.
The sound is universal captivating when dsp'ed to DSD 256.
It is hard to describe but the closest I have heard to native DSD from PCM. It doesn't transform a poor recording into a great one, but it takes a poor recording and makes it that much more listenable. GIGO as usual. But the GO is neater and sounds much better, in my opinion (and it is just that - my opinion).
Mono is still mono. Conversion hasn't been straight forward with that medium.
Don't ask me why it should or even could sound better. I haven't a clue. There is 165+ pages on CA dedicated to HQ Player, and I am sure if you asked the question in that thread someone would be only to happy to enter into debate on why and even if it could be so. Just don't ask me - I'm a relative muppet in respect of CA and even more so when compared to the math PhD's there, and m'colleague Blizzard here.
I would however go so far as to say the mainstream roll out of Roon + HQ Player integration is a paradigm shift in the audiophile digital landscape, provided you have the gear to hear it. Mind you, I suggest any half competent sabre chipped dac would benefit.
In any event, this is the closest I have heard my digital get to great vinyl, which I love.
In fact for classical, which I prefer to listen to most of the time, I am leaning toward Roon - HQP - Nadac combo as my preferred playback chain. Lower noise floor, certainly more convenient and has the same (or at least remarkably similar) liquidity and involvement.
I will hook up a Mytek Manhattan I own when I get a FW card to slot into my server. One thing at a time.
Next trick is to hook up the Nadac via fiber - which should be relatively straightforward. At least in theory. Wish me luck.
The heat sink is slightly warm to the touch on the processor side, dead cool on the other and the case is cool. I'll run it over night to simulate a day's listening and see how it goes. Its a balmy 70 - 80 F here atm, summers reach 105 F and very humid but AC will see it be in a controlled 70-75 F environment.
As an aside;
Getting my head around Win 10 (I use OSX at home and Win 7 at work) was a giant PITA and the Ravenna ethernet protocol isn't very consumer friendly - it is after all designed to be installed under complex studio conditions with lots of in's and out's from many channels to many workstations. I expect a network professional would usually install it. Anyway I managed to work it out. So it cannot be that difficult.
Here are two tips - on a dual ethernet windows pc, the Ravenna/Nadac comes up as a public network and LAN as a private. You have to:
1. Disable Windows Firewall & Defender on the public network
2. Enable all permission sharing on the public network.
As I want integration with Tidal, I want access to the interwebs, and so for some basic, but effective, protection found that 360 Total Security (which is what I usually run on Windows anyway) to be effective and easily configurable to allow the Merging sw and drivers in & out. Anyway I have a firewall on my router and modem, and tend to use a vpn most of the time, in any event, so risk is relatively small. Worse that happens is they hit my music server, which is very much a dead end. The VPN helps with Tidal in Australia, which otherwise can suffer drop outs. Although to be fair has been much better of late.
I am running it all remotely ie headless, so loaded the Roon server edition + HQ Player, and simply added each program to the start folder to launch at start up. After some more hair pulling they are stable in config. Not so easy on Windows 10, or so it turned out. Mainly because I didn't know where anything was. Bloody UI.
So now have two stable ways of playing back files to my Nadac:
1. Roon server edition (no upsampling conversion or dsp - what you put in is what you get out) - Merging ASIO driver - Merging Nadac.
2. Roon server edition - HQ Player (dsp conversion in my case to DSD256 but you can do virtually anything you want including DXD384) - Merging ASIO driver - Merging Nadac (at the dsp'ed DSD256)
Of the two, I prefer the second, and by some margin, with all PCM files, whatever their native sample rate. I am agnostic in respect of DSD files, although perceive a more pleasing quality to when DSD 64 files are dsp'ed to DSD 256. CPU load obviously drop in the latter instance.
The sound is universal captivating when dsp'ed to DSD 256.
It is hard to describe but the closest I have heard to native DSD from PCM. It doesn't transform a poor recording into a great one, but it takes a poor recording and makes it that much more listenable. GIGO as usual. But the GO is neater and sounds much better, in my opinion (and it is just that - my opinion).
Mono is still mono. Conversion hasn't been straight forward with that medium.
Don't ask me why it should or even could sound better. I haven't a clue. There is 165+ pages on CA dedicated to HQ Player, and I am sure if you asked the question in that thread someone would be only to happy to enter into debate on why and even if it could be so. Just don't ask me - I'm a relative muppet in respect of CA and even more so when compared to the math PhD's there, and m'colleague Blizzard here.
I would however go so far as to say the mainstream roll out of Roon + HQ Player integration is a paradigm shift in the audiophile digital landscape, provided you have the gear to hear it. Mind you, I suggest any half competent sabre chipped dac would benefit.
In any event, this is the closest I have heard my digital get to great vinyl, which I love.
In fact for classical, which I prefer to listen to most of the time, I am leaning toward Roon - HQP - Nadac combo as my preferred playback chain. Lower noise floor, certainly more convenient and has the same (or at least remarkably similar) liquidity and involvement.
I will hook up a Mytek Manhattan I own when I get a FW card to slot into my server. One thing at a time.
Next trick is to hook up the Nadac via fiber - which should be relatively straightforward. At least in theory. Wish me luck.
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Great news Andrew!
I knew you would like it. The reason it sounds so much better is you are bypassing the SDM/SRC section of the Sabre chip, and handling it with far superior algorithms in HQplayer. No trickery here, they would preform the same algorithms in the chip, if the chips had the same horsepower as an Intel I7 quad core processor. But that's simply not the case, so mediocre algorithms must be used.
Did you get that going from the fiber NIC? How about the FMC side? Did you get the Ifi Ipower to power it?
Edit: just seen what you said at the end. Should be straightforward. Let us know how it goes.
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Let us know what the setup is on the NADAC + Fiber testing is. That could be quite intriguing!
Andrew, thanks for all the information. Can you do mch with your Roon HQP combo and the NADAC? I haven't tried Roon yet, but read that it won't do mch, but HQP does. Right now I am using Emotion, but I really like what I see about Roon's metadata. One issue is that Emotion makes it pretty trivial for me to switch between my 2 channel system and my mch channel system. Dom has told me he will be add another configuration, a 2+6, in addition to the 6+2, so that when it goes to 2 channel the DACs will be ganged in groups of 4.
Larry
Thanks Mike. You have been really helpful to me with this. I greatly appreciate it.
Larry - Pleasure: just thinking out loud. I don't have a Mch system, or Nadac, so haven't tried. But I understand what bmoura says is correct.
Edit: I have left it running overnight - heat sink by processor is warm, case is mildly warm to touch, far side heat sink cool, as is case. So I am guessing no big deal running it 24/7 if need be. Worse that happens is it melts a processor in any event. Ram is overkill in my build, but why not. Certainly for Multichannel HQ Player math I would suggest my config + a big slow fan in the case somewhere.
Christams Eve here today, and have some running around to do (wife's birthday on 27 December as well) so fiber will wait until after Christmas. The server + Nadac are going up to Edgar Kramer for a review in Australian Hi Fi early next week. So priority is getting it all to work without issue for him. I'll take it up to him and install in his system and network. Fibre is attractive for that, but long runs of ethernett is also ok.
Apart from set up hassles, my biggest grip is the volume control App is useless unless you are on the same LAN which means a Dell switch and Merging firmware for it. Why they didn't just put in a simple IR remote (even an Apple remote) instead of that useless 3.5mm headphone jack I have no idea. I'll be writing some thoughts on set up + issues I have encountered to Nadac shortly, and may suggest exactly that. For that matter I'd be happier with a single mini XLR connector for my headphone needs, or at least an adapter should be in there, ala Mytek.
Larry - Pleasure: just thinking out loud. I don't have a Mch system, or Nadac, so haven't tried. But I understand what bmoura says is correct.
Edit: I have left it running overnight - heat sink by processor is warm, case is mildly warm to touch, far side heat sink cool, as is case. So I am guessing no big deal running it 24/7 if need be. Worse that happens is it melts a processor in any event. Ram is overkill in my build, but why not. Certainly for Multichannel HQ Player math I would suggest my config + a big slow fan in the case somewhere.
Christams Eve here today, and have some running around to do (wife's birthday on 27 December as well) so fiber will wait until after Christmas. The server + Nadac are going up to Edgar Kramer for a review in Australian Hi Fi early next week. So priority is getting it all to work without issue for him. I'll take it up to him and install in his system and network. Fibre is attractive for that, but long runs of ethernett is also ok.
Apart from set up hassles, my biggest grip is the volume control App is useless unless you are on the same LAN which means a Dell switch and Merging firmware for it. Why they didn't just put in a simple IR remote (even an Apple remote) instead of that useless 3.5mm headphone jack I have no idea. I'll be writing some thoughts on set up + issues I have encountered to Nadac shortly, and may suggest exactly that. For that matter I'd be happier with a single mini XLR connector for my headphone needs, or at least an adapter should be in there, ala Mytek.
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No problem! I look forward to your impressions on the optical, as well as the review in Australian HIFI!
That sucks about the NADAC mobile app. So they expect you to connect a wireless router up to the Dell switch for this? Not sure how else you would get Wifi on the same LAN.
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