Reflections on cable pricing insanity
- Thread starter edorr
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Gents,
I got a 2nd hand TA refMM2, just below Opus MM2. I have not recalibrated. It is set for tubed pre (600ohms) to tubed amp (100kohms). I am source (2.5kohms) going to (20kohms)...tubed equipment in all cases. Any thoughts on whether re-calibration will make that much difference in this case? Spoke with BBC engineer who is an audiophile and knows TA and he said no but just curious. Have asked TA but I expect they have a bias. Thanks for any guidance.
I got a 2nd hand TA refMM2, just below Opus MM2. I have not recalibrated. It is set for tubed pre (600ohms) to tubed amp (100kohms). I am source (2.5kohms) going to (20kohms)...tubed equipment in all cases. Any thoughts on whether re-calibration will make that much difference in this case? Spoke with BBC engineer who is an audiophile and knows TA and he said no but just curious. Have asked TA but I expect they have a bias. Thanks for any guidance.
Hi I just had my Transparent Ref XL MM2 recalibrated on my phono source. Went from 5.4 ohm cartridge impedance to 4.2 ohm cartridge impedance. (set for Lyra Skala to Lyra Atlas now). It sounded fine before. I left it as is for about 9 months. I just got it back yesterday...I am kicking myself now...it's clearly better, it is not a subtle change. More quiet, more dynamic, more details, more organic, better bass...Also had the cable (another ref xl mm2) from my phono stage to pre amp retuned...went from SS output on my nagra to the tube output on my nagra...same result.
Given the quality and resolution of your system...you are not hearing your cables at their best. Since you bought 2nd hand..does Transparent charge to retune? Sorry...pretty sure this is something you'll need to get done...that's a big change in source impedance...
My question to TA after I bought a used Reference:
" just bought a used reference balanced MM2. The cable (Lo Z) was tuned for a CD player with output impedance of 10Ohm and Preamp with 20KOhm input impedance. I will use it with a DAC that has output impedance of below 10 Ohm and amplifier with impedance of 100KOhm. Is this way off and is it advisable to get the cable retuned for my gear. What will be the sonic impact of using it with current tuning?
TA Answer:
The Lo-Z specification covers output impedances of 100? or less. You will be fine using it with your DAC.
You parameters are very different, but at the very least this suggest TA will give you a non-commercially motivated answer. Ask them.
Hi on the Reference cables with MM2...pretty sure their is just 2 settings...lo z and hi z...so this links to your answer on no need to change... the Ref MM MM2 (their names are very confusing) is highly tuned to exact impedances...that's really the reason to buy that cable over the Ref with MM2. I expect you're in for a big improvement Lloydelee...
Not so. I realize the TA product line is complex, but the cables I have are not older reference with MM technology (there is no older with MM2 technology, only MM). They are the most current, fully tunable MM2 models. Despite being custom tunable, these MM2 cables, still have the hi z low z designation. Now, it could be TA misunderstood what cables I have (although they had S/N of my cables), but they are definitely the most current, custom tunable version.
Hi, first sorry, maybe I mis spoke here.
Transparent's MM2 version cables are all tunable as you say. However as you move up, the specificity of the tuning increases. So with:
-Reference with MM2 - only a few settings. Like Lo z and Hi z. So as long are you're with the "range" of impedances at Lo or Hi...tuning doesn't need to change.
-Reference XL with MM2 - has more settings...tighter tolerances to the impedance of source and destination. Typically tuned exactly..like for my phono cable...a 4.2 ohm cartridge is different setting than a 5.4 ohm cartridge
-Reference MM with MM2 is even more precise.
I own Ref with MM2 off my dCS. Then all Ref XL MM2 from my tonearm to SUT, then to phono stage, then to pre. Finally I have Ref MM MM2 from my pre to amp and Ref MM MM2 speaker cables.
So you do have the most current. No dispute...Lloydelee's Reference MM MM2 is 2 notches higher up in their line up. Again, their names are a bit confusing.
Hope this helps clear up what I meant. Your Ref with MM2 is a KILLER good cable...again I own it off my digital...
Thanks for clarifying. So my "entry level" reference MM2 has just lo-z / hi-z option. I had no idea.
What puzzles me is that upon inquiring with dealers and initially with TA themselves, they never told me this, and all happily offered to take my money (10% of MSRP), to get my cable "tuned" for new equipment, whereas it turns out there is no really no tuning on these cables as long as I am in lo-z range. I am currently using the reference on a 100ohm MSB DAC, which appears to be just in lo-z range.
Learn something every day...
Just to add the Transparent Audio Opus MM2 is even more specific - it is tuned to your individual equipment. One point however should be considered - using cable tuned for an higher impedance unit is acceptable , however the opposite will seriously affect sound quality -e.g. usually a cable tuned for tubes can be used for solid state, but not the opposite.
I own Opus MM2 XLR ICs tuned for ARC equipment - they are easily the best cables I have owned. However I am considering selling them because sometimes I enjoy swapping and trying different equipment and I can not afford to own several sets with different tuning. The first owners can have their cables re-tuned for a very nice price if they registered them wit TA, however this policy does not extend to used cables.
TA changed their naming and grading of cables several times - comparing cables made in different periods is a nightmare. And sometimes there are cables that were produced at transitory periods that can be only identified by the serial numbers.
Oh man..I wish I could say they got confused on Ref MM vs Ref to...hard to say...glad you didn't send em some $$'s !! Maybe they would have caught it once back at their facility...
Tuning of used cables requires registration with dealer and will set you back 10% of MSRP. I agree the tuning feature is a bit of a double edged sword, because it makes gear swapping very cumbersome.
The TA cable naming confusion leads to some serious pricing confusion in the used market. For example, I bought used pre MM speaker cables (MSRP $6K) for $1,200, and resold them for $1,800 (in two hours - still to cheap). There is a similar pair currently listed for $4,000. Some ill informed TA novice might actually pay that.....
I got another quote for 10% tuning as recently as two days ago from another dealer as I was exploring and quantifying cost of my cabling scenarios.
One dealer I have gotten equipment from really wanted me to get the $40,000 speaker cables. He said I really needed them and that I would be impressed.
I passed on that option. I bought music and other fun toys.
With your tri-amped speaker I presume you would have needed three pairs. I'm sure he would cut you a deal on the transaction.
Wow. I'm a long time MIT user and always thought their product line was very confusing. This is ten times as confusing! I'm so confused it drove me to post my confusion
You can get: "Pre MM cables with MM technology", the "Standard reference (i.e. non MM) version of the MM generation cable". And the "MM version of the MM2 generation cable". It is so insane it is almost funny.
Just stick with the Opus! No possible confusion - Opus, Opus MM and Opus MM2. All clearly labeled.
Just stick with the Opus! No possible confusion - Opus, Opus MM and Opus MM2. All clearly labeled.
With Opus, it is the bank account that gets confused - not to mention the wife should she ever find out about the acquisition.
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